Episode 138: Aspidistra, aka the cast iron plant
Aspidistra elatior ‘Variegata’. Photograph: Jane Perrone.
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Transcript
Episode 138
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Jane: Hello and welcome to On The Ledge episode 138 and this week, we're keeping the Aspidistra flying. If you're a new listener, my name is Jane Perrone. I like house plants and I'm not ashamed of it! How the devil are you? I hope you are continuing to thrive and survive during this weird scenario of lockdown that we remain in, or perhaps some of you are being eased out of lockdown right now? Well all I can say is lucky you! But, you know what? We've got our plants, we've got our leaves to look at and that makes life okay. In this episode, I meet Philip Oostenbrink the national collection holder of two different species of Aspidistra, the Victorian favourite that we should all be growing. I answer a question about watering snake plants and we meet listener, Roos. Yes, another listener called Roos - a different one from before!
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Jane: Thank you to everyone who has signed up to be a houseplant buddy on the thread that you'll find on the Houseplant fans of On The Ledge Facebook group. There are lots of people there who are looking for somebody to chat to about their plants. All you need to do, to get involved, is put a comment on that thread or perhaps if you see someone else who shares interests, or perhaps geographical location with you, then add a reply to their comment and you can team up and have a chat. It might be via Facebook Messenger, email, Zoom - it's really up to you! It's not too late to join in, so if you're feeling a bit bored, lonely or fed up during lockdown, then this is a great way of livening up your life. If you are not on Facebook and want to get involved, don't worry, you still can. Just send a note to OnTheLedgepodcast@gmail.com letting me and Kelly, my assistant, know roughly what you're into and where you're at and we will add a comment on your behalf. It'd be really great to make sure that everybody, or as many people as possible, are paired up with somebody else who wants to chat with them. So do go and have a look at that thread if you haven't done already. Don't be shy because you know what, plant people are lovely people! I'll put a link to that in the show notes, of course, so you can click through easily enough and find it.
If, on the other hand, you'd like to tell the whole listenership of On The Ledge about who you are then Meet The Listener is for you! You can drop a line to the same email OnTheLedgepodcast@gmail.com and Kelly will send you some instructions on how to take part. That's exactly what Roos did, let's hear from her now.
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Roos: I'm Roos, from the Netherlands. I was raised with plants and animals but I first got into plants myself when I had a burnout a few years ago. One of the things that gave me some solace, and feeling of accomplishment and usefulness, was taking care of my plant babies. Since then, I've started making YouTube videos about plants and about amazing plants in my area. I live right in the centre of all the greenhouses here in Holland, which is really, really fun. I listen to podcasts and have an Instagram. I'm full of planty learning - I love it! I still feel like I'm a plant beginner but I'm learning so much from you, Jane, so thank you so much for all the cool episodes!
Jane: Question one - There's a fire and all your plants are about to burn. Which one do you grab as you escape?
Roos: I'd have to pick Casper, my Florida Ghost. He's such an easy grower, he's beautiful and all my other plants I love as well, but Casper has a special place in my heart. I won him in an Instagram giveaway right in the beginning of my plant Aroid adventure and he's just beautiful, with the white leaves and the pink petioles. I love him.
Jane: Question two - What is your favourite episode of On The Ledge?
Roos: My favourite episode of On The Ledge is episode 61, even though I love a lot of the episodes, and I learned a lot about them, but 61 is the one about grow lights with Leslie Halleck. I've listened to it several times and I've bought some little measurement tools from it and I'm really understanding a lot better why certain plants are doing well in my house and why others were not doing well and now are finally improving because they're getting more light. So thanks so much to Leslie. I love her and I even bought her book after listening to that episode!
Jane: Question three - Which Latin name do you say to impress people?
Roos: The Latin that I like to say is actually Alocasia micholitziana Frydek, because here in Holland a lot of people are calling the green version Frydek, when in fact the green version of that plant is the Micholitziana and the variegated version is Micholitziana Frydek. So I might be a little bit annoying to people with that, but I like to be correct in my use of Latin, so I like to use that one.
Jane: Question four - Crassulacean acid metabolism or guttation?
Roos: Crassulacean acid metabolism: I had to Google that one before answering this question! I'm choosing guttation because I love Aroids. I have only Aroids in my house and I found out that Crassulacean acid metabolism is more for succulents and cacti which I'm not very good at taking care of, so definitely picking guttation.
Jane: Question five - Would you rather spend £200 on a variegated Monstera, or £200 on 20 interesting cacti?
Roos: Even though this is not a popular opinion, I would pick the Monstera because I don't like cacti! I cannot keep them alive and I prefer to have a really, really big beautiful Monstera. I have several cuttings that are doing quite well, but not great, so it would be really cool to have a really big one, especially now that they're becoming a little bit more affordable here in Holland. You'll definitely be able to buy a huge one for this money.
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Jane: I love the fact that the Florida Ghost is called Casper! What an inspired choice of name! Thank you, Roos - nice to meet you! Welcome to new Patreon subscribers JianLeung, Desiree, Sara and Kayleigh who all became Ledge-ends this week. Thanks to Andy who upped his pledge from Crazy Plant Person to Ledge-end. Check the show notes at JanePerrone.com for details of how to join the merry band of Patreon subscribers and if that isn't your bag, then you can give a one-off donation via Ko-fi.com or PayPal. Those links are also in the show notes. Leave me a review on your pod app of choice or maybe just tell a friend about On The Ledge who is in need of some lockdown listening.
I had a few interesting emails in response to midweek bonus number five - the question about shopping at big box stores, which I wanted to share with you. One of the messages came from a listener who works at one of the plant farms that supplies the big box stores of America. This person, who wants to remain anonymous for perfectly understandable reasons, said that the amount of plastics, chemicals and plants that are disposed of would make your stomach turn. Sometimes we throw out tons of perfect plants simply because the company changes its mind. So their message is this: Please use social media to create a socially distanced plant swap, then you would have friends to swap with in person later. So thank you to that anonymous listener that got in touch. It's interesting to hear how much wastage there is in this industry of mass houseplant production and it's something I'm hoping to come back to in a future sustainability episode.
Another listener got in touch to say some of the big box stores do have people who are in charge of the plants but they're usually rushed off their feet and unable to keep up with the demand for care for these plants. I'm sure that's correct for some of them. I know that in the UK, places like Wilkinson's - would you call that a big box store? I'm not sure - but it's a store that sells all kinds of things including plants and gardening equipment and I know that they're, certainly in my local branch and many other branches that I've heard reports from, there is nobody to look after the plants, so it really does vary. So do your research, if you can, and as I said before, let's keep supporting our specialist growers because they are doing a wonderful job.
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Jane: Long time listeners to the show will know that I am a big fan of the Aspidistra. So I was delighted when Philip Oostenbrink, who is the national collection holder for Aspidistra elatior and Aspidistra sichuanensis cultivars in the UK, he's also the head gardener at Canterbury Cathedral so he's a very busy man. I was lucky enough to be able to visit his place in Kent and check out his Aspidistra collection and meet Marvel the cat, who makes an appearance in this episode. This was recorded before the lockdown back in early March so we weren't breaking any rules and, of course, for the moment, Philip's national collection remains closed to visitors but, hopefully, some time in the future he will again be able to provide tours of his collection by request and by arrangement and I'll put a link in the show notes to the details for getting in touch with Philip. You can find Philip on Twitter @philipHGCC and I'll include all of the relevant links in the show notes if you're short of a pen. As always, this episode comes with a health warning, or rather a wallet warning, that I am totally not responsible for causing you to add to your plant wish list via listening to this show. I'm afraid it's one of the perils of On The Ledge. Right - are you ready to go down an Aspidistra rabbit hole? Let's go!
Jane: Philip Oostenbrink, we're here in your front room with an array of Aspidistras around us, what could be better? Regular listeners to my show will testify I'm always going on about Aspidistras and how they're underrated and we should all be growing more of them. I think you're on the same page as me on this? Tell me about your Aspidistracollection and how this all started?
Philip: I've got a national collection of Aspidistra elatior and also Aspidistra sichuanensis, but I've got a huge collection anyway because I've got a loads of other ones that aren't within my national collection. But it started with one plant I found in the deanery greenhouse in one of the cold frames because I always thought there was just a green one, but in the deanery where I work they had a variegated one, which I thought was very unusual. Then I started looking into a bit more, to see what other kinds of Aspidistra there were and I discovered that there are about 175 species alone, so I started getting interested.
Jane: Your national collection, how many different, there's a Plant Heritage term for it, there's a unit...
Philip: Taxa.
Jane: How many have you got?
Philip: Within my elatior collection, I've got 22, and Sichuanensis I've got sixteen, but outside of the collection, I think I've got about 60 different Aspidistras.
Jane: That's a fair number. I can hear your cat in the background. Marvel the cat is having a good munch on his breakfast at the moment, which is probably good because I'm allergic to cats. That's making me laugh!
Philip: He'll start meowing in a minute.
Jane: It's all going on here! It's like naming your favourite child, but is there one that really is your favourite? I'm looking at this beautiful variegated form up here. This is a very Instagram-worthy plant, isn't it? It's got half white, half green leaves. Is that the favourite, or am I just imposing my interests on you?
Philip: It is a very rare one. It's called Equinox, so it is half-green, half-white leaf. It's very difficult to get, but it's also very difficult to keep. So it's not really my favourite because it tends to revert, so it's not a very stable cultivar. These are just the two leaves -- that's how I got it from the nursery. I've got so many. There's one called Morning Frost, which is under the Equinox one. It comes up green with a tiny yellow stripe, but as the leaf matures it gets this mottled white and it becomes whiter and whiter. I do like the ones that change colour after a while because some of the, especially, the elatiors, they come up in a certain colour, green maybe, and will then fade to white or stripy, or all sorts of things.
Jane: I've got a couple. My expectation for something that looked like that - obviously they weren't that particular cultivar - but I was hoping for really dramatic variegation and so far they haven't shown much variegation. I wonder if I haven't given the enough light? I've done the classic Aspidistra thing of sticking them in the darkest part of my house because they'll be okay there. Is that a mistake?
Philip: The variegated ones particularly could do with a bit more light to get the variegation in there. One that is sold as Variegata, quite often is very unstable, so you can get variegated leaves, with one year you might get one that is more green than white. Other years, you get loads of white in the leaves, so you won't always get the same pattern. Giving them a bit more light helps. What I find, especially with the variegated ones, is keep them outside during Summer, if you can, and they tend to really bulk up and get much bigger.
Jane: Here comes Marvel - cats know that I'm allergic to them, I swear to God they really do! Behind us . . . I'm just going to blow my nose because, as ever, I've got a cold. I swear it's not Coronavirus. It's just a bog-standard cold. Are you going to go outside now, Marvel?
Philip: I think it might be better.
Jane: He's like, "No, I'm not going out there! I just want to make a noise! I want to be on the podcast, please!" Behind you, you've got the wonderful variegated form which has got splashes of cream all over the leaves, like the constellation, what's that one called, is that a Sichuanensis one?
Philip: That is a Sichuanensis - that one has spots all over the leaf and quite a lot of spots, as well. It's one I got from America, last August. I went there on an RHS and Plant Heritage bursary and went to Plant Delight Nursery, which is like the Aspidistra Walhalla - it's amazing.
Jane: Plant Delight, where's that?
Philip: North Carolina.
Jane: Wow, okay, and they're big Aspidistra growers?
Philip: Aspidistra and loads of other things as well. They have got a huge collection of Aspidistra and this was one that they had named Warp Drive.
Jane: Warp Drive, love it!
Philip: As a Star Trek fan, you have to have one of those.
Jane: That is on the list, I can see that completely. How does it work, bringing a plant back from the States? How tricky is that?
Philip: It's not tricky if you've got the right paperwork.
Jane: So you just need the Phytosanitary Certificate?
Philip: Yes, of course you need that, yes. At the time, I could still bring them back in my suitcase with the Phytosanitary declaration. They managed to do that within the week I was there, which was really good. Nowadays, you can't any more. You have to have them properly sent and they have to go through customs, to be checked and everything. Last year, you were still allowed to bring them in in your suitcase with a declaration, of course.
Jane: You had to have it! You had to have Warp Drive! That's amazing. That's a great plant. Why is it that Aspidistrasaren't more popular? Is it because they're slow-growing and, when do you see them for sale, they're quite expensive still. Compared to a Spathiphyllum of a similar size, you're paying a lot more.
Philip: They are slower-growing, of course, than most houseplants. I think that is one of the reasons: that they are so slow-growing. They're testing microprop a bit, so that might push the price down a bit. We're looking into that, actually - some of my plants are being sent out to be tested if they are stable on microprop.
Jane: When you say microprop, can you explain what you mean there?
Philip: It's tissue culture, so you get a few cells from the plant and from those cells you make more plants and you can get quite a few, like thousands, out of not many cells. It's a quick way to do that. The problem is that not all plants respond to it very well, so you can sometimes do microprop but they might not be identical to the mother plant you had. So that might help. It's funny though because if you read any houseplant book from the 1800s, to the latest books, every single one says that they're coming back into fashion, so they must always be around.
Jane: It's interesting isn't it? I remember looking at old photos of Victorian ladies with their Aspidistras. I think that's a brilliant thing to look back on. I interviewed somebody on the podcast who had a plant which is documented to have been around for over a hundred years. Whilst you've got one, even if it's expensive, hopefully it will last for a really long time.
Philip: You can hardly kill them really. Overwatering is one of those things you need to be careful of. Rather keep them a bit drier than too wet because they will just rot away. Sometimes people are put off by the brown tips on the leaves. You just need to mist them or keep them in a high humidity area and they'll be all right then.
Jane: My Aspidistras so far have been fine but they've been in stasis, they haven't really been growing that much. Obviously they are slow-growing, but what's the best way of getting them to put out new leaves? Is it just giving them a bit more light than you might imagine?
Philip: Probably a bit more light, also a light feed. I wouldn't overfeed them with anything: a light feed once a year, maybe. They tend to start growing their leaves around January / February - that's when they do that. Again, I'm preparing for Hampton Court Flower Show for next year, with a display. The plants that I've kept outside in a polytunnel, like a little shade tunnel, they've just shot out of it and they've done so well. It might just be, if you've got one that you think is struggling a bit, if you have a shady place outside, just leave it there for the Summer and leave it outside, although you could leave it all year because they're very hardy. It tends to give them a bit of a boost and they like that, if they're outside.
Jane: A holiday does us all good. What about potting mix for these plants? Are they fussy? Just regular houseplant compost, or should we be adding all kinds of extras?
Philip: They're not fussy at all, no. Personally, I use coconut coir, which is peat-free, so they don't really need a peat compost at all. I give them a bit of Sequestered Iron or Tomorite, or something like that, just to give them a bit of feed because the compost is only a medium so you can add any feed to that you like, even Miracle Gro if you want. That's how I grow them. They're in quite an airy compost, you don't want anything sandy or anything too dense because they just won't like that. They like air around their roots because otherwise they'll just rot.
Jane: Okay, well they are all top tips and I'm hoping I'll be able to get mine growing a little bit better. Are there any cultivars that you still haven't got in your collection that you're seeking after in all strange corners of the globe? Are there any other ones? That white and green one is pretty outstanding. Is there anything that's out there still to be got?
Philip: The white and green one was actually one I was looking for and have managed to get. Generally, not really, no, I think I've got most of the ones documented. What I would like to do though, if I can get to Japan, and see what old cultivars they have, if there's anything round there. There's one called Amanogawa, apparently. The originalAmanogawa only has spots. There is one being sold at the moment which has got stripes and spots - it's called Amanogawa and it turns out there is another one which is different. I'd really love to go to Japan and see what old cultivars they have there. Also compare and see these English cultivar names: are they actually the original cultivar names or is it just something that's been put on for the trade?
Jane: As is so often the case. We think of these plants as foliage plants but they do flower.
Philip: They do, yes.
Jane: Tell me a bit about the flower because they're slightly strange.
Philip: They're very other-worldly. It's like an Avatar. At the base of the plant, they're this star shape, purplish, the elatior have got a bit of yellow in there as well, while some of the other species, like Sichuanensis, are much darker, they've got these dark purple flowers. The flower actually determines the species, so if you just have two Aspidistras just with leaves you can't generally tell which species it is. You need the flower to determine the species, so what does the stigma look like? There is this myth that you can't get rid of, that they're pollinated by slugs but it's just simply not true!
Jane: I remember my friend Robbie Blackwell-Miles talking about this and in my mind I'm remembering that he was talking about fungus gnats or small flies being the pollinators?
Philip: The flower evolved to look like mushroom, basically, and fungus gnats pollinate them and if you open up a flower just for identification, you sometimes have to cut the flower in half, then you can really tell that slugs would never pollinate them because they'd have to eat through the stigma to get to the pollen, so they couldn't do that.
Jane: That doesn't make any sense. How interesting. Probably you won't be growing them just for the quality of the flowers, but they're a curious extra. Do they flower every year? How often can you expect to get flowers?
Philip: They can flower every year. They tend to flower on plants that have been reasonably split or have got space in the pot. I quite often hear people say I've got this Aspidistra which has been in my family for a million years and it's just never flowered. It is quite often because they're so potbound and that's one of the reasons they don't flower. Quite often, when I buy plants, of course they have got reasonably potted up and they flower. Especially elatior flowers can be quite big. They can be the diameter of a 10p coin.
Jane: Wow, that's quite big. I always think of them as being really tiny. I'm always looking through people's windows as you're walking around. Do you ever spot something through a window and go: "Oh my gosh," and suddenly see an Aspidistra in some unexpected setting. I find often National Trust properties will have a massive Aspidistra. I found myself being a bit of an Aspidistra spotter. I'm sure that's the same for you?
Philip: Yes, it is and especially the variegated ones. To have a big variegated Aspidistra is quite nice and you don't often see them that size. You quite often see the normal green one of a decent size, but the variegated ones take a bit longer as well and people have to look after them for years for them to bulk up like that.
Jane: Yes, I'm always looking out for interesting things. I've got a photo archive of weird plants in stately homes that I want to get my hands on!
Philip: It's funny as well, of course, with the national collection of Aspidistra, you also have a collection of Victorians posing with Aspidistras, so I've got all those photographs. People send me photographs and a lady from Plant Heritage sent me a picture from Venice, where she was standing next to an Aspidistra. You get that as well - it's quite nice. People do have this affinity with Aspidistra quite often, "Oh my grandmother used to have them". It's just been one of those plants that quite a lot of people have seen before and that's what I enjoy about it, as well. Apart from the plants being beautiful, it's also the history about them and how the Victorians loved to grow them and that also attracts me to these plants.
Jane: Do you have people come to visit the national collection? Can somebody make an appointment to come and look at Aspidistras? Is that how it works?
Philip: Yes, it is. With Plant Heritage and national collections, you don't have to open up for the public but quite often you want to show your plants as well. One thing I'm doing with it, when I open my garden for the National Garden Scheme, I have my Aspidistra collection on display in my living room. If people want to come and see my national collection, yes, they can find my name on the Plant Heritage website and the address and details - just give me a ring and come over.
Jane: Great. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Shall we go and have a look at some green houseplants? Is that okay? Shall we wander? I'm going to pick up this recorder and let's have a look. What do your neighbours think? They're probably like: "This man has a lot of plants!"
Philip: Yes, this is all lawn.
Jane: Yes, you've enhanced.
Philip: At the front garden as well.
Jane: You can always tell a plant person because their front garden is full of plants as well.
Philip: Normally, this is all jungly and a lot of it is in the garage.
Jane: This is interesting, what's this? I don't recognise that at all.
Philip: It's a Pseudopanax.
Jane: Okay. I love that variegation.
Philip: Like the brown one, it's related to that.
Jane: Okay, nice.
Philip: A friend of mine in the village has a national collection of those.
Jane: It's a small space, you've got a lot of Aspidistras in here. Just going to sniff that greenhouse smell. Lovely! I love a greenhouse smell. We've got loads more here.
Philip: They're mainly in here because I had a bit of a spider mite problem and to do something against spider mite you up the humidity and I've put some predators on it as well, that's why they're in here. Humidity in the greenhouse is quite high especially with all the rain we've had. There's some really nice old cultivars in here and some of the ones that I've brought back from America as well in there - some of the Sichuanensis, mainly.
Jane: There's lots of nice variegation on this one.
Philip: That is, what I mentioned before, that is the what is sold as Amanogawa, so it's got stripes and spots and Amanogawa is the Japanese name for Milky Way, and quite often if you see a spotted Aspidistra for sale, it's quite often labelled as Milky Way, but it's not really the correct name anymore. They've named her Ginger now. The original Milky Way is this one here, so it's got the stripes and the spots and quite a lot of variegation on there. I've really tried to bulk that up a bit but it's very slow-growing because of all the white.
Jane: There's not actually that much green there, is there?
Philip: No, there isn't. No.
Jane: By the time you've got those splashes of cream and the cream stripes, that's not a lot of chlorophyll in there at all.
Philip: It needs to shoot out a bit more green, really.
Jane: Yes. Do you ever have any Aspidistras in the ground? If you have the plain green Elatior could that be in the ground, in a sheltered spot?
Philip: Any of the Elatior or the Sichuanensis and quite a lot of the other ones can just go in the ground. They're very hardy. Elatior or the Sichuanensis species are hardy to about -15C -20C but I've got another one called Uan Fat Lady.
Jane: I saw that at Chelsea on a display.
Philip: That's hardy to -25C, so very hardy.
Jane: Wow.
Philip: The only thing is they don't like it wet. I tend to grow them maybe as ground cover under a pot. They're better drained then so they don't rot away. They're doing really well. You can just leave them outside, no problem at all. It gets rid of the bugs.
Jane: Yes, that's right and I suppose spider mite is the major pest of these?
Philip: It is, yes.
Jane: Do you have any secret top tips other than increasing humidity?
Philip: When I do it, I spray with SB Invigorator.
Jane: Yes, the wonderful . . .
Philip: It's really good stuff because I don't want to put any chemicals on it really, so it's all organic. Or biological control through these little sachets that are hanging on the nearest pieces as well.
Jane: Yes, I wanted to ask you about these sachets. So this is a biological control? Is it another mite?
Philip: Yes, it is another predator mite that eats the spider mites and this is one you can put in lower temperatures as well. It should do the trick. At least it'll knock it down a bit and hopefully eventually it'll get over it.
Jane: How does that work? Could you use that in the house as well as outside? I'm just wondering about them wandering off and not being in the right place?
Philip: No, they will stick to the plant where the food is, of course. They won't go off and go somewhere where there are no spider mites. This particular one also lives off pollen, so if you haven't got spider mite then at least they can survive on pollen as well for a while. It's a good one. Yes, you can use them indoors. It's not like you have loads of bugs and then suddenly they're tiny. They're about the size of a normal spider mite even. It's not worse than having spider mite in your home.
Jane: Those mites, once they've done the job, and the spider mite has gone, presumably they will then die off because there isn't anything for them to eat?
Philip: Unless you've got something with pollen, so something in flower, then they will continue. Yes, if you have another infestation you would probably have to repeat the treatment.
Jane: It's great to be able to use these non-chemical methods to control things. It's definitely worth looking into. Do you find that other people are getting into these rare and unusual Aspidistras and are trying to swap things with you? Is there a market for these very rare ones, in the way there's a market for the variegated Monstera and all that?
Philip: Definitely. I'm actually running an Aspidistra European Group on Facebook. I mainly set it up to be European because then you can swap around with everyone as well. There are some very popular ones. There's one which is in the trade as chromatographic which is actually called Kinboshi. I've got one indoors. It's got spots but it's got this aura around the spot as well, they sell 9cm pots for £40 to £50 because they're so sought-after.
Jane: I guess it's the propagation. Is it just division on these ones?
Philip: It is, yes. It's just division and it's quite easy. Take it out of the pot, you can clearly see the rhizomes and if you find a bit that's got a bit of root on it as well, snap that off and just pot that up. It's very easy. I've done it any time of year. I even do it in the middle of Summer, if I need to.
Jane: I guess the more you do that, the smaller the original plant?
Philip: Yes.
Jane: You're not going to end up with loads.
Philip: No.
Jane: What's the seed situation, though? I've never seen Aspidistra seed.
Philip: They tend to only produce seed when they're out in the ground. When I was in the US they did have some seedlings there as well. In this country, it just won't happen: it just won't seed.
Jane: I ask because we're doing the annual sowalong on the podcast where we're discussing growing houseplants from seed. I'm thinking about everything in terms of: "Can you grow that from seed?" It's just interesting what plants can and can't. You can get the seed or you can't get the seed, so that's an interesting one.
Philip: I've never seen Aspidistra seed for sale - very unusual.
Jane: Fair enough. I guess if you could buy seed, you would be producing loads of plants and the price might be a bit cheaper.
Philip: They're not stable from seed either. You will get different ones quite often, which could be good in a way, but on the other hand, how many do we need that have just got this tiny little different stripe.
Jane: Yes, I can see what you're saying. I'm also being drawn to this one here. You can tell I'm mad on variegation. This is a rather beautiful variegation with different levels of minty green stripes and cream. What's that one called?
Philip: That one is called Mangatsu and that is one of the very old Japanese, original cultivars. This is one of those that changes colour, so it comes up with these quite green leaves and then eventually the green will fade and it will fade to almost completely white. It's got some spots as well, but that's a very old Japanese cultivar and those are the ones that I'm really looking for. So, to get original Japanese selections, because that's where they grew them so much and that's where they did all those selections.
Jane: Are the Japanese still Aspidistra crazy? Are they still into them?
Philip: One lady I spoke to, who is Japanese, said it's called a toilet plant because they have a lot of outdoor toilets in the older buildings and apparently it was always next to the toilet. Shady spot I suppose!
Jane: Yes, I guess that's true!
Philip: Some people are still enthusiastic and there are still good collectors there.
Jane: That's great! Well, it's really nice to see your national collection. Long may the Aspidistra reign! It's not going anywhere, is it? It's going to be around forever.
Philip: Yes, coming back into fashion.
Jane: Yes, as it has been for the last however many years!
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Jane: Thanks so much to Philip for showing off his awesome collection of Aspidistras. Now it's time for Question of the Week, which comes from CapeCodQuazaQuaza on Instagram - great Instagram handle there! - and CapeCod, as I'll call them for short, is a "total noob" to houseplants and they've got a Sansevieria ceylanika in a six inch-wide and four inch-deep pot. CapeCod writes: "I know they only need water about bi-weekly, if even that, but I don't know how much they need at a time. Help!"
What a great question because I think this is one of the misconceptions about watering that you can look at a plant and say: "Okay, I'm going to give it a mug full of water every week on the same day at the same time and that way it will stay nice and hydrated," but what is easy to forget, when you're a beginner, is that the amount of water the plant needs will change according to the conditions, what the plant is up to and, of course, what potting mix you've put it into. So this Sansevieria ceylanika, which is the plain green mottled form of the snake plant. The genus has actually changed to Dracaena ceylanika, but I'm not sure I can quite cope with that yet! - it's a lovely plant, it does need regular watering during the growing season, as CapeCod has pointed out, but how do you know how much to give it? The one way to make sure that you're never overwatering a plant, and this method also means that it doesn't really matter how much you water, is to take the plant out of its pot, if it's in an outer cache pot, so it's just in its pot with its drainage holes. Either put it in the sink and run a load of water through that pot until it's well drained and all of the compost has had a chance to get moist or place it in a container of water to soak up as much water as it can in about an hour and allow it to drain. By doing either of these methods you're letting the plant choose how much water it needs rather than dictating: "Oh yes, it needs a mug." Inevitably you'll get that slightly wrong and if you don't remove any excess water from the bottom of the pot then root rot ahoy, as you might say.
I would recommend taking this plant out of its environment and sticking it in the sink and doing the watering once a week that way. It's much better to water thoroughly and so that the compost is allowed to get wet and then to dry out than dribbling on a bit of water every now and again. Part of the reason for that is if you do that, the plant starts to think that water is only available near the surface and will grow a lot of roots near the surface which is not what you want. You want a nice root ball much lower down in the pot. If you're not sure if your plant needs watering in the first place, go ahead and stick your finger right in there, right up to the end of your finger, depending on the size of the pot and see what the potting mix is doing around the root ball. If it's completely dry, then yes, it'll need water. If it's still pretty damp at that level, as opposed to being dry at the surface but still moist right in the rootball, then watering is required and remember with Sansevieria, in the Winter, this plant can be much, much drier and you might only be watering this once a month or so.
So, watering practices are really vital to get right with plants like these but it also makes a difference on the potting mix. If you bought one of these from the shop, a snake plant you've just recently bought, it's probably planted in something which is much more absorbent than I'd recommend. If you have got a freshly bought snake plant, just be really cautious on the watering and make sure that the plant is allowed to dry out thoroughly before you water again, then a good soak, then dry, that's the kind of see-saw that these plants prefer. Once you get it potted up into something a little bit more free-draining, then you can be a bit more generous with the water because you've sorted out the drainage issue. So I hope that makes sense, CapeCod, and if you've got a question for On The Ledge drop me a line OnTheLedgepodcast@gmail.com
[music]
Jane: That's all for this week's show. If you're a Patreon subscriber, there will be An Extra Leaf with Philip going up in the next few days. Until next Friday then, keep the Aspidistra flying. Bye!
[music]
Jane: The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, An Instrument the Boy Called Happy Day, Gokarna by Samuel Corwin and the tracks Chiefs and Endeavour, both by Jahzzar. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. See the show notes at JanePerrone.com for details.
I talk to Philip Oostenbrink about his National Collection of Aspidistras and answer a question about watering snake plants, and we hear from listener Roos.
Reminder: If you are feeling in need of some plant chat during lockdown, add your name and details to the Houseplant buddies thread on the Houseplant Fans of On The Ledge Facebook group.
As you listen, check out the links below…
Philip standing with one of his Aspidistras in the Victorian fashion. Photograph: Jane Perrone.
This week’s guest, Philip Oostenbrink, is holder of the National Collection of Aspidistra elatior and A. sichuanensis. His day job is head gardener at Canterbury Cathedral in Kent.
Philip with some of the Aspidistras in his greenhouse. Photograph: Jane Perrone
You can find out more about the work of Plant Heritage, who run National Plant Collections, here, and they are on Twitter as @plantheritage.
On Twitter Philip is @philipHGCC.
He also has a website, Thoughts of a Plant Nut, where you can find details of his National Collections of Aspidistra but also Hakonechloa (a garden plant).
There are around 175 species in the genus; Philip has 22 elatior cultivars and 16 sichuanensis cultivars.
Plant Delights nursery in North Carolina in the US is the nursery Philip names as the Valhalla of Aspidistra.
The half-white half-green cultivar I wonder over is A. ‘Equinox’ (pioctured below). Sadly it is not a stable cultivar!
The A. elatior cultivar ‘Morning Frost’ is green with tiny yellow stripes and is mottled white as it matures.
A. elatior ‘Variegata’ is a fairly common cultivar with cream and green stripes but the variegation can be unstable.
Some cultivars have colourful names, such as ‘Uan Fat Lady’.
The cultivar A. ‘Mangatsu’ is pictured in the gallery below: all photos are copyright Jane Perrone.
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, An Instrument the Boy Called Happy Day, Gokarna by Samuel Corwin, Chiefs by Jahzzar and Endeavour by Jahzzar.
Logo design by Jacqueline Colley.