Episode 180: Indonesian houseplant culture with Youtuber Onlyplants
Sean William Salim is an Indonesian plant YouTuber. Check out his channel Onlyplants now! Photograph: Sean William Salim.
Transcript
Episode 180
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Jane: Coming at you loud and proud from my potting shed, it's On The Ledge! I'm your host, Jane Perrone, and in this week's show, I talked to Sean William Salim of YouTube channel, OnlyPlants, about Indonesian plant culture, and in Meet the Listener we head to South Korea to hear from Ray.
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Jane: Thanks to everyone for your kind comments about last week's episode. So far the jury is firmly on the side of non-open plan homes, from the comments I've had from you, but perhaps you want to speak up in favour of them? Please do share your thoughts on that. Thank you to the listener who got in touch about the story going live currently, about Marimo Moss Balls. Yes, those balls of filamentous algae that people have adopted as the easiest form of houseplant are now a cause of concern because they have been found to be harbouring the invasive zebra mussel across at least 21 states of the US where they are sold. It's a real problem because this mussel is really invasive, both in the US, the UK and elsewhere and they cause all kinds of problems with water pipes, damaging boats and fishing equipment and clogging up the intakes for power plants even. So if you've just bought a Merimo Moss Ball recently, definitely check your moss ball very carefully for the invasive zebra mussel. I'll put a couple of links from the USGS into the show notes which give you all the information, what to look for and what to do if you find a zebra mussel in your Marimo Moss Ball. Basically it needs to be destroyed and there's a few sensible and safe ways of doing that, including putting them in a bag in the freezer for 24 hours, that does the trick, but there are some other methods too, so do check out the show notes for that information.
Thank you also to JeanVDM95 from Canada for a lovely review, and to my new Patreons, Kath, who's become a SuperFan, Melissa and Rosa, who have become Ledge-ends, and if you'd like to unlock extra exclusive content, including a bonus interview with my guest today, Sean of OnlyPlants, then do check out the show notes at janeperrone.com to find out more. You can also give a one-off donation via ko-fi.com or via PayPal, leave a review for the show, or just holler out the window, "I love On The Ledge!" I'm sure your neighbours will know exactly what you're talking about.
Well, I'm halfway through tidying my shed, and before I crack on with that, let me introduce today's guest. Sean William Salim is based in Jakarta, Indonesia and he is a YouTuber and huge plant enthusiast. I was really interested to find out from Sean what plant culture is like in Indonesia, what plants are popular and the plants that are surprisingly not popular and the differing challenges of growing houseplants in a tropical climate. Do check out the show notes as you listen for details of Sean's YouTube channel, Instagram and more.
Sean: Hi guys, my name is Sean, I'm a houseplant enthusiast from Indonesia, I love propagating plants, I love learning about how to care for plants here in my tropical climate and, of course, share this information with a lot of my viewers in the tropic regions and, of course, from all over the world as well.
Jane: I'm so excited to have you on On The Ledge, Sean! First of all where in Indonesia are you based?
Sean: I'm based in Jakarta. It's the capital city and it's on the island of Java. It's right smack in the middle of Java. I guess everybody knows where Jakarta or Bali is. These are the two most popular destinations here.
Jane: Is it a very urban environment that you're in? Is it really densely populated and packed with people and cars?
Sean: Jakarta itself is very, very densely populated. We have some of the worst traffic in the world, a lot of annual flooding, so once a year, half of the city would just be underwater. It's pretty bad.
Jane: Wow!
Sean: I live an hour away from Jakarta. I'm on the outskirts, so I'm not really affected, but people are.
Jane: Tell me about, climate-wise, what Jakarta is like?
Sean: We are a very, very tropical climate. That means that our temperature is constantly around 27C to 30C, so it's just hot and humid all year round. The humidity is 80% to 90% - this is outdoors, right! Of course, indoors is a little bit different because we have our AC on and the airflow isn't so good indoors, it's very different, but yes, it's very hot and humid all year round, with that rainy season that we just talked about. It's an annual rainy season that's really bad.
Jane: The fact that you've got such humid conditions outside, do you have many plants inside? Does the AC make it difficult to have a lot of plants that grow really easily outside, inside your house?
Sean: Well, personally for me, I have grown plants both indoors and outdoors. I started my collection growing them indoors because I didn't want to encroach on my dad's because I lived in my parents' place, so I didn't want to use up their outdoor spaces. I did find that after moving them outside, they grew better. It's a lot easier to care for them and I would say that most of the Indonesian houseplant parents keep their house plants outdoors with the exception of maybe a few apartment dwellers who keep them indoors.
Jane: With that high humidity, does that pose some challenges? Here in the UK where you've got low humidity issues in the winter, but do you have issues with humidity that's just too high?
Sean: Absolutely. So a lot of our plants actually rot often, so during the rainy season now, I use fungicides religiously, like literally every day, I would whip out a bag of it and just spray down my plants because it's just terrible. I would have to put all my plants in terracotta pots, very, very fast draining potting mix and still a few of them would manage to rot because of the rain. So I sometimes even have to play Tetris with my plants. I have to move them indoors in turns because I have such limited indoor space.
Jane: What about light? Your position on the equator presumably means that do you get different light at different times of year, or is it fairly steady throughout the year?
Sean: This is something that a lot of local people that I speak with, they don't believe me when I told them that our sun movement changes throughout the year in the way that the north and southern hemispheres will receive different light levels throughout the year. For example, when Australia is having their winter time, the sun is actually hotter up on the north hemisphere, which I believe is around the June period, so yes, there is a difference between the northern and southern hemisphere in terms of light levels.
Jane: The Aroid craze is big in my part of the world. I'd love to hear a bit about Aroids in Indonesia. Are they ten-a-penny, or are there still these rare, unicorn plants that everyone's trying to get hold of? What's it like for Aroid growers in Indonesia?
Sean: The rare Aroids actually got so popular here recently, we have a lot of new plant parents and it's become so trendy to collect these really weird-looking Aroids that, unfortunately, I think these Aroids are brought into the country, I would say many, many years ago, and they were in wilding cultivation here, that's why we have a lot of the stock. We have a supply chain here, which we mostly export, but we also have such a huge demand now that the prices have gone up like crazy. A lot of these prices have gone up three to four times over Covid, so there is a huge demand for it. We also have a lot of common Aroids. Those prices haven't changed much over the pandemic. Again, I think Instagram and YouTube has a big influence on how popular or how in demand some of these Aroids are.
Jane: It's interesting to hear that you've got the same thing going on with the status symbol Aroids. Is it exactly the same things? Thai constellation? It's variegated Monstera adansonii and those things that us mere mortals can't get hold of. Are those the kind of things people are really spending the money on?
Sean: Yes, but one notable difference is that there are actually a few Aroids that come from this region that are actually not that well liked here. Maybe because people think, "Oh, these are just local. They're everywhere!". We have a lot of our Scindapsus, we have Rhaphidophoras and Amydriums, of course, which are very, very popular overseas, in Europe, in the States, and those are not so popular here. The prices aren't that crazy. It's not very sought after. So I guess people are really into these, more like the South American varieties of the Aroids here.
Jane: It's so interesting! The grass is always greener, that's the message I'm getting from that, but something that's local and a plant that's endemic to the region is less interesting than something from South America. That's so interesting. You've sent me a really interesting list, a ranking of the most popular plants, so let's run through this list. Right at the top are the Philodendrons. Do you grow a lot of Philodendrons?
Sean: Me personally, yes. I have quite, quite a lot of Philodendrons.
Jane: You've put in brackets 'PhiloPhilo'. Is that the local name for them?
Sean: Yes, this is something that I wanted to talk about. Basically, when locals walk into a nursery and what they refer to as Aroids they just say, "Oh, PhiloPhilo. Do you have the PhiloPhilo?" Over here they call everything Philodendron. They call Monsteras Philodendron, Epipremnum, so 'PhiloPhilo' is a word that they use, which I find kind of funny.
Jane: Number two you've got Anthurium. I've just got this picture in my head of these amazingly lush Anthuriums with those beautiful colourful bracts just growing like weeds in Indonesia! Is that right?
Sean: I believe that Indonesia is also one of the biggest hybridisers of Anthuriums, a lot of mutations also were discovered here and then they become more widely cultivated. Anthurium has always been popular here, whether you have the big heart-shaped leaf ones, or the rosette types. Those are our grandparents' exotic plants at that time.
Jane: I remember, when I was younger, they were seen as being what English people would call 'naff' - not very cool - but now they've just been reinstated and I love the fact that you've got breeders working to create these amazing colour combinations of the bracts and the different sizes of leaves and stuff. They are amazingly cool. Number three, you've got Monstera. Obviously that's a given - they're hugely popular. Given your climate and conditions, do you get people with these growing outside into the huge monsters that you see growing in their native climate, in Mexico?
Sean: Yes and no. If you go to some restaurants, or certain fancy malls or hotels, you would see them growing beautifully, but, unfortunately, you can't leave these plants out in the public. I wouldn't grow them outside of my backyard because the next day it will just be chopped away and taken by people.
Jane: Right!
Sean: Plant theft is a very common thing here, so people don't really put their nicer plants outside.
Jane: Is that a new thing, as a result of the rising popularity of plants, or is it just something that has always been the case, would you say?
Sean: I think it's got worse now that people know and understand the value of these plants, but there are a lot of common plants here, like the ZZ plants, Dieffenbachias, that are commonly just left outside on the streets and that's fine because those don't cost a lot of money.
Jane: Yes, that's interesting. Number four, you've got the Chinese Evergreens, Aglaonemas. They're a fantastic plant that I think are only just starting to come into their own here in the UK. We're starting to see more and more cultivars, but when I look at what's happening in your parts of the world, there seems to be a really much wider range of options in terms of amazing leaf patterns and colours.
Sean: Yes, absolutely, and the one that's the most popular now is your Pictum Tricolor.
Jane: Yes!
Sean: It's huge and it's endemic here and, actually, I've walked around the nursery and I found a lot of mutations of those, so I hope that those become popular too. Indonesia is also the hub for Aglaonema hybridisation with Mr Greg Hambali, if I could give him a shout out on this channel. He is responsible for some of the beautiful hybrids that we see, such as the Lotus Delight. That was one of the prettiest Aglaonemas that I've seen. He's sort of a researcher, a professor, and he hybridises different fruits and other plants as well.
Jane: Wow, that's great! I'm writing a column about Aglaonemas for a magazine next month, so I should look at that. That's interesting. The trouble is that when you get into talking about these things for a British magazine, is that you have to go, "Oh, that's beautiful, but nobody's selling that here," so I can't even... I can mention things, but then you get people who get very angry and go, "I can't find this plant that you were talking about!" so it's a tricky one, but there's definitely even an influx of new ones here, so let's hope that continues. To me though, those Aglaonemas are very underrated here because they're such great plants and really easy to grow. Obviously they perform well in your climate. They must thrive?
Sean: Yes, they do, but again, back to the humidity issue, it's very easily over-watered here, so they have to be treated like a Calathea here, where you have to really amend the potting mix, especially if indoors. One thing about Aglaonemas that not a lot of people know, is that they are so much fun to propagate. There's not a lot of channels, or YouTubers, that talk about them, but they're so fun.
Jane: Tell me more?
Sean: So you would chop the top off, so you have the top foliage, which you can propagate in water or in a potting mix, and then, when you have a long, bare stem, you can chop it up to pieces and you can lay the pieces sideways on the top soil and then each node presumably should put out a shoot and then that final stop that you have, with the roots and all that good stuff, that will put out a few branches, maybe two to three branches, of Aglaonema, so they get bushy really fast when you cut it.
Jane: That's really interesting. So it's a bit like a Dracaena marginata, or something, where you can take that... I've never thought you could do that, but that's so interesting. That's great!
Sean: It's faster to propagate than the Dracaena.
Jane: Really? Well, I suppose it's less woody, isn't it? It's more of a softer stem. That's really interesting. You're right, there's not much out there on those plants, so that's really, really good to know. I'll mention that in my column and I'll credit you for that useful piece of information. Let's talk about orchids, in at number five. I'm imagining some amazing orchids. Is it the same as here, in that you can walk into a supermarket and pick up a Moth Orchid for, like, a couple of dollars, or whatever?
Sean: I would say that the Phalaenopsis would be the most popular, although there are so many varieties. Orchids really fall under the collector's side. There are quite a lot of orchid lovers, communities and, of course, we have a lot of availability of the species, which means that we can buy a lot of the species at a pretty affordable price. There are a lot of rare ones, like the Nervillia, if I'm not wrong, that's becoming very popular now. We're starting to see a lot in cultivation. We have all the way from rare orchids, all the way up to the really crazy, fancy ones that require high latitudes or certain temperatures. Those are very difficult, but there are people who appreciate those here. I believe they're also heavily tissue-cultured, if I'm not wrong.
Jane: I'm sure that's true. Just going back to what we were talking about with the Aglaonemas and the other Aroids, you talked about fungicide and needing to make sure you've got a very well-draining potting mix. What is your potting mix for those plants then? What do you add, or will you take away, to make sure that it's super well-draining?
Sean: I have three. One is the general, which is very similar to what you guys use overseas in Europe, in the UK, in the US, which is your coco peat, perlite, worm casting and, in my case, I actually added some burnt rice hull. I used burnt rice hull in all of my potting mix and this is very carbonised material that is actually very good to prevent rot. They provide good aeration as well. I also have my Aroid potting mix, which is a little bit similar, with the coconut chips, burnt rice hull, perlite and worm casting. The final mix, which is a little bit interesting, it's not available in a lot of countries, I use dried bamboo, I use dry twigs, which is sometimes from fern, perlite, burnt rice hull and worm casting. So this is actually what I call the Forest Floor potting mix! It's basically when you walk through a forest floor, here in Southeast Asia, that's the what the consistency looks like! It's very fast-draining. It's got a lot of dried leafy twiggy type material. A lot of air can move through them. So my Calatheas actually thrive in them and they absolutely require that fast-drying period to prevent rot.
Jane: I've got two questions coming out of that. I have used rice hulls, but not burnt ones, so are they carbonized? Are they black? Is that what you're talking about?
Sean: Yes. So the burnt rice hull is actually a little bit like horticultural charcoal in very, very small... imagine rice-sized charcoal. So you can actually crush them in your hands and it would just disintegrate to a powder.
Jane: Oh, that's interesting because here I can get hold of the normal rice hulls, which I have experimented with a little bit. I've found them useful but I haven't come across that. Second - the bamboo. Are you talking about pieces of bamboo stem, or are you talking about bamboo leaves, or a combination of both, for your final mix?
Sean: That's interesting because I actually haven't questioned that before! They're paper thin, so I'm assuming they're probably from the leaves, but I could be wrong. If you look at the shoot, there's actually many, many layers that it's made of, so maybe it is just really broken down.
Jane: So you're buying that in a pack from somewhere? That's available as a product?
Sean: Yes.
Jane: That's really interesting. I've got some bamboo in my garden which I have to regularly hack back. I'll send you some! One of the things about bamboo, it's easy to think you've got lots of bamboo around, but actually processing that into the right size pieces, that's why you buy this stuff, isn't it? Well, that sounds like a really interesting mix and not anything that I would have come across here, but it clearly works for what you need for your plants, so that's fascinating. I'm going to look at the plants, your list of plants that are under-appreciated or not popular, and, shocker, at the top of the list is Hoya, which, again, is this going back to your point about the place is dripping with Hoya, therefore we don't really worry about growing them as special plants?
Sean: First of all, a lot of Hoyas are just so available here. In fact, a lot of the Hoyas here are exported overseas. The most popular one, I would say, the Caudata. I think Caudata is from Sumatra, if I'm not wrong, don't quote me on that. That's really popular and nobody wants them here and those leaves are just weird to local people. In fact when Hoya sellers here put their Hoyas on sale, they never show the leaves, they only show the flowers, which is weird!
Jane: That's so interesting because we're so obsessed with the leaves here in the UK and the US and the flowers are a secondary thing, but I can understand why the flowers are the primary thing, but I guess that's just a difference. I guess there are lots of listeners to this show who would just have a dream of, like, going to Indonesia and grabbing all the Hoyas in the world! It's the old phrase 'familiarity breeds contempt,' right? If you see something all around you all the time, you don't appreciate it. I'm sure it's true of plants here in the UK as well. It would be the same. So tell me about what else is on this list. We've got some other things on your list of under-appreciated plants. I see Sansevierias on there.
Sean: We have a lot of the Sansevieria trifasciata with the yellow. That's everywhere, so that's in every landscaping that you see and people consider them very common plants. Then we have the interesting ones like the Whale Fin Sansevieria, you have your Moonshine, those are not popular at all. I can buy them here for less than $1. Nobody wants them. We have your Bantel's Sensation, we have so many fancy ones. They're available here, don't get me wrong, but just nobody wants them and they're so cheap to get here.
Jane: Oh my gosh! Regular listeners of my Bantel's Sensation obsession will be laughing now because I've had such a long search to find that plant, which I now have, but wow, there you go! Also on the list are cacti and succulents, which I'm not surprised don't do great in your climate - it's just too much of an uphill struggle, I guess?
Sean: Yes, it's the humidity. They just can't live in 90% humidity. They'll turn to mush.
Jane: Are there a few people who become passionate about cacti and succulents and then they have to do these weird set-ups, where they have to try to reduce humidity? Are there people who still persevere with them, or is it just not something that anyone bothers with just because there's so many other cool plants?
Sean: I haven't really seen that many plant hacks. I know that you guys over there are so... you have your IKEA greenhouses - you guys really went to town with that! I don't think Indonesian plant parents are that determined to keep a particular species alive, so cacti and succulents, we have them in supermarkets but they're just destined to die. People buy them and they bring them to the office cubicles and then they die in a few months.
Jane: Well, that's true all over the world too. Also on the list are Begonias and Peperomias. Again, I guess lots of Begonias are endemic, or close by, to Indonesia? Again, they're not so popular for that reason?
Sean: Yes and also I think they're a little bit weird and I think a lot of people just are put off by the hairiness, or that patterning, so it's not for everybody, I guess. I really love Begonias but some people are put off by the way... also they're very difficult to care for. Again, they rot very easily here - very, very hard to keep alive.
Jane: We'll be back with Sean shortly, but now it is time for Meet the Listener.
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Ray: Hello Jane, my name is Ray and I'm an American expat living in South Korea going on over 12 years now. I grew up in the desert climate of New Mexico but currently reside in the centre of the ever-so-densely populated metropolis of Seoul, which officially claims a temperate climate but is more technically a humid, continental climate, with long, long, dry cold winters and hot humid summers. These extremes in temperature and moisture levels mean that I have to create microclimates in my home if I want to keep the over 100 desert, forest and tropical plants I have. You know it gives me life, queen! As for my partner, yes, not so much!
Jane: Question one. You've been selected to travel to Mars as part of the first human colony on the Red Planet. There's only room for one houseplant from your collection on board. Which plant do you choose?
Ray: It's got to be my Hoya Carnosa Compacta. No matter how many times I look at it, I just feel better. I think I get more comments on this plant than any others in my home. It almost looks like a freeze frame of writhing and intertwining bodies; it's almost obscene! Anyway, I doubt the rest of the colonisers would appreciate my taking up precious water resources for a different kind of plant that would just guttate all over the place, so plants like my Alocasia are definitely out.
Jane: Question two. What is your favourite episode of On The Ledge?
Ray: Episode 144 - Underrated House Plants. It's the type of episode I really hope you do more of because it features little-known or long-forgotten houseplants that are viable, wonderful and dependable. So why should that famous Fiddle Leaf Fig get all the flipping love from us? Sorry, I seem to be having an episode of my own! Anyway, I have had my eye out for that Piggyback plant ever since you mentioned it in episode 144 because it seems to have a similar growth habit to another plant that I know you and I both love, Jane; Saxifraga stolonifera.
Jane: Question three. Which Latin name do you say to impress people?
Ray: Goeppertia kegeljanii for two reasons. One: because it has been recently reclassified from the former Calathea Musaica, which is a fun and obnoxious thing to point out, but also because I have been wanting to try my own hand at growing one of these and it's just been on my mind for a while now. In fact, tomorrow morning, I am actually going to the largest plant market in this country to see if I can get one of these absolute beauties!
Jane: Question four. Crassulacean acid metabolism or guttation?
Ray: Okay so this one's easy! Definitely crassulacean acid metabolism. How could you not be amazed by the sheer brilliance of this adaptation? Let's be real, guttation just seems so basic by comparison and at the same time so extra! Why does a plant gotta spit on me? No! Anyway, CAM plants, well, these are just hardcore survivors in hardcore survivor mode. Yes! It's like they've been saving up all of their precious resources for those metaphorical rainy days which, for CAM plants, would actually be the exact opposite of rainy days! Whatever - you know what I mean!
Jane: Question five. Would you rather spend £200 on a variegated Monstera or £200 on 20 interesting cacti?
Ray: On a recent trip to a botanical garden on Korea's largest island, I saw, in person, for the very first time, a magnificent specimen of the variegated Monstera. It was majestic! It was huge! It was bold! It was special! I mean it took my breath away, but I refuse to spend that much coin on any one plant, no matter how trendy it is, so yes, I'll take cacti for £200, Jane!
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Jane: Ray, you are the best! Thank you for sharing your answers to the tricky, five Meet the Listener questions and if you'd like to appear in the Meet the Listener slot, drop an email to ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com and my assistant, Kelly, will send you the oh-so-simple instructions for taking part. Now back to my interview with Sean of OnlyPlants and I want to find out about the plant-buying market.
Jane: Let's talk a little bit about where you can buy plants in Indonesia. What are the primary places that Indonesian plant parents would be going to, to get their regular stuff and also anything more rare and exclusive?
Sean: We have stretches of roads spread around the city, where people are just selling plants on the roadside. So you would just drive and pull over and you just buy plants and these are typically the more landscaping-type houseplants and the more traditional way of buying. Our moms would buy plants this way. These days, of course, there's your Instagram, which is huge. People are buying a lot of plants online and we have online marketplaces here, like Amazon. It's local, so we don't really ship. It's more for local people and there's a lot of transactions going on in these online marketplaces. Unfortunately, we don't have your big garden centres. Over in the States, you have big box stores that have loads and loads of plants. We don't have those, so it's usually small stores. There are actually a lot of home-growers now and especially in the mountainous region, where we can actually just visit. I actually just did that last weekend, where I went to an area - it's called Ciapus in Bogor. That's where a lot of the plants that were exported are actually grown. These places used to be private, but now that plants have become popular, they're open to public, so we could actually roam into their houses, into their backyards, and look at all the plants that they're growing and barter. There's no price tags, or anything, so you've got to negotiate your way with them.
Jane: You have must have a reasonable idea of where to start with a price, in terms of what something's worth? Sansevieria,that's going to be cheap, but your rare Aroid might be going for more. Who are the people who are running these places? Are they people who've been professionally trained in horticulture? Are they hobbyists? Are they people who are just making some money as a sideline? Does it vary?
Sean: I think it varies, but I don't think a lot of people here have that horticultural background. I actually am not quite familiar with the universities, and all that, that offers these degrees. I'm sure there is but I think those are a little bit more focused on agriculture because houseplants have only become popular very recently and I actually spoke to some of the growers, when I went up in the mountains this weekend, and a lot of them are quite new to it, maybe three to five years into it. They usually own a small plot of land, they knew somebody who passed down their skills, or passed down some parent plants for them to propagate and start growing. So I guess they're just doing it because it's an opportunity now to make some money. Their lives have actually gotten better, I think, especially now we're over Covid. I saw some of their businesses expanding. Obviously prices are going up, so these guys are doing well, but I don't think they're hobbyists. There are hobbyists that are growing plants, but I think these are more on the rarer spectrum.
Jane: That's interesting. I suppose, not surprisingly, as houseplants grow in popularity globally, people are seeing an opportunity and they're taking advantage of that to set up these new businesses, which is really, really interesting. We need to talk a bit about plant poaching because this is an issue that, well, it's not unique to Indonesia, as we discussed in my previous episode with Dr Jared Margolis, about plant poaching. This is a problem that's often blamed on your part of the world but actually is a global issue. Tell me a bit about what's going on where you are in terms of, are plants being taken illegally from the wild?
Sean: Absolutely. We would look at online shops and people will be posting pictures of their plants and obviously they've been ripped out from somewhere because they're not potted, first of all, and then you can look at the leaves and you can tell these are plants that were taken from the wild. When you have plants grown and cultivated in your space, this is going to look completely different. So that is happening. I have spoken to a very reputable rare plant grower and he's also a trader. I talked to him briefly about poaching. He gave me a pretty interesting insight where he's saying that actually some of these plants, their natural habitats are also being decimated at the same time, meaning a lot of land is being cleared for palm and things like that. Actually, huge amounts of land is being cleared daily here in Indonesia. That is something that maybe is not related to our houseplant hobby, but it's related to other economical factors and he's saying that when people take plants, they're, in a way, conserving the species in our homes. So there's maybe a few schools of thoughts about this and I'm not sure... it's definitely a grey area. It's definitely not a good thing, especially if people want to take them and just sell it for a profit and then have them shipped halfway to Europe where the plant will probably die because maybe it's not used to being in a box, or in people's homes, because there are some really interesting and weird species that I've seen that I don't even know how to care for them. I can't imagine who's buying them, right?
Jane: That's a really interesting point. There's a lot going on there and, yes, if a piece of land is about to be cleared for a plantation then, what do you do? Do you let those plants that are there just get scraped up and chucked away, or do you take them and grow them? That's a really interesting point I hadn't thought of. Do you know if the government in Indonesia is part of worldwide efforts to tackle poaching? Are they concerned about that?
Sean: I haven't really heard about that, so no, it's not something that I think we have addressed seriously, but I may be wrong because I don't really look at... In general, I don't think there's awareness... It is actually one of my ambitions, maybe, some day, I actually do plan to get into a nursery business where I can probably allocate an area where I could showcase Indonesian plants and style them nicely, have them in an area and then maybe, in the back, I'll cultivate them and then try to, obviously, propagate, figure out the care and then see how I can prevent poaching by letting people have access to these plants at a really good price and these are grown on a massive scale, very healthy plants, so that is one of my ambitions. Of course, I'm not sure if that's going to happen, but I really believe in conservation of the species. I also believe that a lot of them are beautiful and they deserve our attention too but we have to be careful. For me, as an influencer, I can't put out a plant that everybody just suddenly wants and then there will just be poaching. So there needs to be a supply chain as well.
Jane: Exactly. Well, let's talk about your role as an influencer. You've got your YouTtube channel, which is fantastic and I do recommend. We'll link to it in the show notes and I do recommend that people go and check it out because it is superb and it's really insightful and loads of great videos. Just tell us about your own personal plant journey. How did you end up where you are now?
Sean: So, I've been killing plants my whole life!
Jane: Haven't we all!?
Sean: I've bought a lot of plants and just stick them in dark corners and just let them die, but my journey really began with a Monstera, where I kept it in my photo studio. It just grew really well and then I looked into propagating it and I actually did it wrong, where I just cut the petiole off and then I researched it and realised you actually need the node and the root. From then, I realised, if you do your research, a lot of plants are going to do so well. There's so many cool species. So, watching the new growth emerge and propagation, actually, got me hooked to this plant hobby. I love watching things grow and I love learning about new species, where they came from and why they look the way they do because all plants have adapted over millions of years to look the way they do. There's a reason for everything. So my collection actually grew from zero to 1,000+ plants in less than a year!
Jane: Wow! You got you got the bug fast then?
Sean: Yes, and the thing about Indonesia is that plants are so inexpensive here, as I mentioned before. When I shop for a Sansevierias, for example, I can just buy 20 species and for less than 20 bucks. Of course, I propagate them and I get more out of it.
Jane: Do you find that you get lots of people like me, from the US and the UK, coming on your channel and going, "Huh, I never knew that your nurseries look like that!" or showing that we don't really understand a lot of what's going on in your plant culture, in your part of the world?
Sean: Yes, I actually do quite a lot of nursery tours and people are a little bit surprised, like, "Oh my God!". For us, most nurseries would have a Monstera obliqua and that is quite common here, and a lot of the rare Aroids, so people are shocked by that. When I go through my care tips, it's very different from the care tips that they're used to because of different climates overseas. So, yes, I get comments on that all time because there's not that many YouTubers from my end of the world.
Jane: That's interesting and, obviously, lots of people are growing plants. Do you think there will be more YouTubers coming along from Indonesia that we should be looking out for? Are you encouraging others?
Sean: I am, I'm encouraging people to start their channels. In Indonesia alone, actually, there's a lot of YouTubers that's come on in the past year and they're doing really well, but they're largely in Bahasa, Indonesia, so I'm the only English-speaking one, for now. Hopefully more will show up. There's one from Malaysia, if I can shout out to Leafing Around. She's awesome. Her channel is new but she's getting followers very quickly. There's somebody in Singapore that I'm encouraging because he's so knowledgeable with plants, but he's just a bit busy. His collection is insane! Yes, I hope that more people would come on, so if you're listening to this and you live in Southeast Asia, there's room for that, there's an audience for that!
Jane: That's great and without burdening lots of new people getting into plants, there's a hunger for the information, which is great. Where are you going to take your channel next? Obviously you've got this lovely plan for your nursery, but what about your channel? Are there other things you're hoping to do?
Sean: I really love community. I love building people up, so hopefully, after Covid, I can start doing plant swap events, workshops and, again, I would be documenting my nursery, if I'm actually building it, to show people what it's like to build a business and, of course, I'll have more species to play with by then because I really love to get in depth with each species, get up close and personal and then share my knowledge through my channel. Also, I would really love to travel. I used to travel so much before I was into plants. I used to go to Thailand. I used to live in the United States. So I would really love to revisit those places, but going back there from a perspective of somebody who loves plants now.
Jane: It's a brilliant channel and I really hope that everybody goes to watch you because I've learned a load and it's really rewarding to see what's going on in other parts of the world. For me, it's escapism, in that I can just follow you going around a gorgeous nursery and it's just a lovely thing to see, especially at a time when visits to such places are limited.
[music]
Jane: Thanks so much to Sean, my guest this week. If you are a Patreon subscriber at the Ledge-End or SuperFan level, you'll be able to listen to an exclusive extra interview about importing and exporting plants, which has got a fascinating insight into this industry, so do check that out, Patreon supporters. I've got that Friday feeling today! I'm not sure if it's because I got my first Covid jab yesterday - thank you science! - or whether it's just the prospect of spending some time in the garden this weekend. That wraps up this week's show. Join me next week for more planty chat. Bye!
[music]
Jane: The music you heard in this week's episode was Roll Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops, Chiefs by Jahzzar and Namaste by Jason Shaw. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.
Subscribe to On The Ledge via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Player FM, Stitcher, Overcast, RadioPublic and YouTube.
This week Jakarta-based YouTuber and prolific grower Sean William Salim joins me to talk about plant culture in Indonesia, and we say hello to Ray from South Korea in Meet The Listener.
Check out Sean’s YouTube channel for a host of brilliant plant videos. Photograph: Sean William Salim.
This week’s guest
Sean William Salim is a passionate plant grower and YouTuber based in Jakarta, Indonesia. Check out his Onlyplants YouTube channel for nursery tours, propagation tips and more! Sean’s also on Instagram as @bo.tan.ist.
Check out these videos from Onlyplants, referenced in our interview:
The other southeast Asian plant YouTubers Sean recommends is Leafing Around in Malaysia.
Patreon Ledge Ends and Superfans: you can listen to An Extra Leaf 67 where Sean and I discuss Indonesian import/exports.
Marimo moss ball warning - more info
Zebra mussels have been found in marimo moss balls across at least 21 states in the US - these are considered an invasive species in the US, UK and other parts of the world. Read this release from the USGS for more information - there’s a useful PDF on safely destroying affected moss balls here.
More on marimo moss balls generally on my blog here.
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, Chiefs by Jahzzar, and Namaste by Jason Shaw.