Episode 211: Alocasias and a sowalong catchup
Roos with some of her Alocasias plus some other aroids in the background. Photograph: @plantwithroos.
Transcript
Episode 211
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Jane: Hello and welcome to On The Ledge podcast, the podcast for people who find plants irresistible and also sometimes infuriating! My name is Jane Perrone and in this week's show I talk to the lovely Roos about Alocasias and more. We review the latest developments in the On The Ledge Sowalong and I answer a question about Hoya seeds.
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Jane: Thank you for all of you who've been quick off the mark and are already getting involved in the On The Ledge Sowalong this year, as announced in last week's episode, episode 210. So if you haven't listened to that episode, here's the lowdown; it's a project where I encourage as many people as possible to grow houseplants of any kind from seed and you can chart your progress on social media using the hashtag 'otlsowalong', so just use #otlsowalong, don't put the year or anything because I might not pick it up. The posts I mainly look at are #otlsowalong.
That is what quite a number of you have been doing on Facebook and Instagram. Over on the Houseplant Fans Facebook group, there's been lots of updates on what you've been up to. Julia's sowing seed from the American Begonia Society. Kelly, my assistant, she's sowing Bluebell Vine seeds, Clitoria ternatea -- ooh! - which come from Thompson and Morgan, their houseplant seeds range. I've never grown that one Kelly! Let me know how you get on. Helen has been getting an avocado pit to bust open. Helen's wondering if that doesn't count as the Sowalong, but you are going to sow it eventually. It's more of a Sproutalong right now though, I do agree! It looks good though, well done! Of course, that was one of my early episodes, looking at growing avocados from the stone, so well done for that.
Elspeth has got ten packs of 25 cactus seeds from TheCactusStore.com including Cereus, a Trichocereus and Mammillaria. Oh, those are cool. Over on Instagram, RoundRabbit has got Foxtail Fern, Asparagus Fern babies, on the go, while Berlinertropen has got a fantastic range of succulent seeds ready to sow. So it's not too late if you want to take part. Have a listen to episode 210, if you haven't already done so, in which the lovely Ian Thwaites give some tips on sowing cacti and succulents. If you look at that episode also, you can find all the previous Sowalong episodes to find out everything you need to know about sowing houseplants from seed and just crack on and have a go! I still haven't got round to doing my sowing yet, but I will be doing some this weekend and, yes, I'll be sharing that on the old social media with the hashtag, say it after me, #otlsowalong!
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Jane: Now, if you're not in the UK, you can skip forward a minute or two, but something specifically for my British listeners right now. I am launching something special for you! It's called The Plant Ledger. See what I did there!? It is an email newsletter about the UK houseplant scene, so it's going to cover things like offers and sales at online and physical plant shops, plant shops opening or moving, new plant introductions, cool Instagrammers you need to follow and it's going to be a one-stop shop for all of that information. If you happen to be a planty business in the UK, there's a chance to advertise at low cost and reach just the kind of people who might like your product. So, how do you get hold of The Plant Ledger? I will put a link in the show notes, or if you go to my website janeperrone.com you'll find The Plant Ledger link in the top right hand corner, the main navigation. Click on that and you will be able to sign up and if you sign up, you get my free detailed guide to fungus gnats and their control. So you get a lovely free gift of a three-page detailed PDF on fungus gnats; what are they, what's their life cycle, how do we control them, what are the things that do work and the things that don't work? So a free one of those for everybody who signs up! So go ahead today and subscribe to that newsletter. It's going to come out fortnightly initially, but if it's a success, I'm hoping to move it to weekly. If you've got things that you're organizing, or you're a plant shop, or you have any news that you think would be good for that newsletter, you can drop that to theplantledger@gmail.com and I would love to hear from you. So that's pretty exciting! I'm hoping that it's going to offer something really unique and useful to anyone in the UK who grows houseplants.
I shall be opening a bottle of bubbly this weekend because this coming Monday, the 28th, is the five year, yes five year anniversary, of me starting On The Ledge. The first episode came out on the 28th February, 2017. Heck, doesn't that seem a long time ago? A lot has happened in that time, hasn't it? So I'm going to be celebrating this weekend and I was asking people on social media how I should be doing that. Lots of you suggested interesting things, like planting a tree, that's a good idea, making a succulent-looking cake - have you seen those cakes that have the icing that looks like succulents? I thought that was a cool idea, with five candles on it! Opening a bottle of bubbly is what I probably will be doing and I thought I might also make a top five of the most commonly heard words on On The Ledge podcast. Number one would probably be fantastic, number two would probably be fabulous, I'm thinking three might well be Hoya, knowing me, four, Monstera and five, well, knowing me and my Britishisms, it might well be the word compost. As ever, I want to say again, thank you for all your support over the last five years. I cannot believe it's been five years since this podcast began but I really couldn't do it without you, so thank you to everybody who has listened to even ten seconds of the show since its inception. Thank you also to Mark and Plant Daddy Podcast, another house plant podcast that I love listening to, who have both become Ledge-ends this week, supporting On The Ledge on Patreon.
Now, let's hear from this week's guest and if you have ever started out with great hope and affection for one of those gorgeous Alocasia Pollys and it's all very quickly gone wrong...
Roos: I'm Roos, from PlantWithRoos, and I make plant videos, plant content, that is kind of my job now. I'm also a yoga teacher and I'm from the Netherlands.
Jane: Tell me about your Alocasia collection. How many have you got? Have you counted them, or are you too scared!?
Roos: I actually counted them for you!
Jane: Oh, good!
Roos: I haven't counted them before! I have twelve different kinds at the moment. I do have my eye on a few more but I don't try to buy too many plants right now because I already have a lot of other plants as well. It doesn't sound like a lot actually, just twelve, but they're all very, very special to me.
Jane: What is it that makes them special plants for you? Is it merely an aesthetic thing, the beautiful leaves, or is there something different, or deeper, going on?
Roos: I really appreciate the difference in their leaf. They can look completely different to each other. You have round, ribbed, red leaves and then you have something that looks more like a crystallinum, with velvet and dark and glittery veins. They can get really, really big quite quickly as well, which I really like and I think they're just really fun to grow if you know what you're doing because they can also be a little bit of a challenge, I admit.
Jane: Yes, this is a cry of pain from me, in that Alocasias are not my friends! Generally, Aroids are not my friends, most of them. I have had the classic experience of buying that beautiful Alocasia Polly and thinking, "Oh gosh, this is amazing!" and then it starts to rapidly turn into something horrific - falling leaves and you don't know why - and it's very traumatic! Where do most people go wrong with these plants?
Roos: Yes, I've heard a lot of people saying "I like to look at them but not take them home because it's a little bit depressing!" Sadly, I think I was lucky. I started with plants and I just put them in my windowsill. My windowsill is south-facing, so I didn't realise what I was doing right until I learned a little bit more about plants in the years after. Light, I think, is what most people underestimate. They can take a lot of light and they want and need much more light than other Aroids. I even have an Alocasia zebrina in my greenhouse outside, which is also south-facing. So, the first few leaves burned and then it grew new leaves that were perfect and that could take all of the light. I think light is the most important, but also being very careful with root rot because they can rot quite quickly. I try to water mine... I let them dry out a lot between watering because, in summer, they can need a lot of water, especially the bigger forms, but in general, I let them dry out quite a lot. I'm quite mean to them, which I think they like!
Jane: Well, yes, that is the key, isn't it? That's just being aware of their needs, rather than being mean, although it can feel very mean, as you say. So, we're worried about light, as you say, you might bring one home that... is that a classic scenario? When you bring it home, you either put it in that south -acing window and it starts to burn because it's not quite used to that much light, or something's happened to it while it's been in the shop, or in transit, that means it has a bit of a rocky start at the beginning? That seems to be what happens with people.
Roos: Yes. In my windowsill, they don't burn unless it's full high summer in the south-facing window. Usually, when you take one home, it will be a completely different spot than it was used to growing. Usually in people's homes, it's much darker than in the greenhouses. I think, for most people, they don't get enough light, they might have already gotten too much water in the greenhouse. In the garden centres, sometimes they water plants very thoroughly, which these guys don't need very often, so I think it's a combination. Sometimes, if you bring them home in winter, it can get quite cold outside, so there's a whole lot of things that are changing for them and then they have to adjust to your space. It's quite normal for them to have a little bit of shock, but I think that's for most plants if you bring them home, unless they're very, very sturdy, happy plants. I like to just give them a little bit of time and then make sure they get enough water, no, enough light, a little bit of water, when they need it. I use, you know the measuring stick thingies that you can put in the pot? I don't know the word for it. I'm Dutch, sorry!
Jane: A water gauge?
Roos: Yes, exactly, thank you! I stick that in, especially if there are new plants, because the medium that they come in is not your medium that you're used to, the soil mix. I like to use that in the beginning to check it out to make sure that you don't over water because sometimes the medium that it comes in is not ideal for your space. I actually just rotted a plant because I kept it in the original soil and all the roots were gone. Whoops! It still happens to me as well, so I think that is very important. The other thing with Alocasias is they are very, very prone to spider mites, so always check your plants before you even bring them home to see if there's those little tiny bugs on there. Or, if you see some webbing on the leaves, keep an eye on them in general. I use protective measures to make sure that they don't get the spider mites.
Jane: What are your measures? Do you prefer biological controls or something else?
Roos: I use good bugs. I call them my little good bug army! I basically get fresh ones every four weeks. I'm lucky because I collaborate with a company that sells them in Holland. Currently, for the spider mites, I get them every eight weeks. I get fresh little baggies of good mites that will eat any spider mites. Since I started doing that in January 2021, I haven't had any spider mites any more and I'm knocking on the table right now, just to keep it that way!
Jane: My gosh! Yes, you want that to stay that way! That is a really good success rate. If you're worried about spider mites on your Alocasias, as you say, you're looking for those grainy, webby bits on the back of the leaves. Is it just looking generally sad when a spider mite infestation hits? Is there anything else to look out for?
Roos: It's hard, I think, with spider mites because once you see the webbing, it's gone pretty far already. I try to just check even just the tops of the leaves in the dips - what do you call them? - the veins, I guess?
Jane: Yes.
Roos: Sometimes they can hide there, so I try to keep an eye out but, honestly, since I started using predatory mites, I don't check them any more! It's allowed me to be really quite lazy with treatment, so that's amazing. I really, really like that because I want to spend good time with my plants and not checking for scary bugs. Other than that, it's hard to see the signs. I feel like other bugs might give clearer signs earlier on. Spider mites are so small and the webbing is a little bit easier to spot but them, by themselves, it's hard. They are very easy to come into your home, especially in spring and summer when the windows are open and there's a little bit of a breeze. I don't know how they get here but they always get in somehow, just like with thrips unfortunately. I don't know really how you can spot them, apart from the webbing.
Jane: Yes, it's a pain, isn't it? I do have this strange vision, like Spiderman-type vision, of little spider mites flinging themselves in through an open door in the summertime! I don't know, it's amazing, isn't it, how these pests manage to work their way in? That is definitely a David Attenborough documentary, right there!
Roos: For sure! I made a reel, or a TikTok, about this because I found so many different things that I never even thought about. I saw some raspberries with thrips on them, fruit that you would just eat, that you buy in the supermarket, they had thrips on them. Then you can bring it in on your clothes, or when you're bringing in new plants, or you're trading with someone. There's so many ways for them to come in that I think you can't really have a house without pests. You can manage them rather than to try and eradicate them fully.
Jane: Well, indeed. As I always say, you've got mites living on your face, become used to this idea that mites are everywhere, including on your face!
Roos: I actually heard that yesterday for the first time in my life!
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Jane: We'll be back with Roos shortly, but now it's time for Question of the Week and it's #otlsowalong related. Lauren wanted to know where to source Hoya seed. Now, this is an interesting one because while most seeds, both vegetable and houseplant, indeed have a viability that lasts for a number of years -- sometimes, in the case of some seeds, as we learned back in the Millennium Seed Bank episode, seeds can last for an incredibly long time - but some seed has very limited viability. It has to be sown when it's really fresh and this is the case for Hoya seeds and that's why you don't generally see packets of Hoya seed. Seed that's going to be sitting around in a seed packet needs to have lengthy viability so it can sit around in that seed packet and still sprout once you sow it back home. So, Hoya seed is problematic for this reason and doesn't come up in the usual places that you might go to get your houseplant seed. The Hoya seed network I guess is rather unreliable and certainly under the radar. The best thing you can do, as, actually, Ian Thwaites said for the cactus and succulent episode last week, is get to know other Hoya growers, be it in person or virtually, and ask them nicely for some seed. When seed is produced by Hoyas, when they are pollinated successfully, they can produce quite a lot of seed. So people may have seed going begging and you may be able to get some that way. It's going to be sporadic, it's going to be not that easy but that is definitely what I would recommend doing: get on board with the various Hoya groups that exist on social media, like Facebook, there's quite a few different ones, and ask around. It's not going to be easy to get hold of Hoya seed but it's definitely worth a try.
Hoyas are great to grow as cuttings, but when you do grow them from seed, you get a huge number, which, obviously, if you're looking to build your collection by doing some swaps, might be a great way. Just to say also, I have occasionally seen Hoyaseed come up on eBay. I just checked just now and there were a couple of Hoya seed offers up there. Obviously, use extreme caution because I can see that two of the listings that are there are clearly not going to produce any viable seed, but there's a couple of completed listings where people who look like absolutely bona fide Hoya growers are selling seed. These are listings that are no longer running, but ones that you could have bought in the last couple of months for Hoya verticillata and some green-flowered Hoya carnosa. It's worth having a look on eBay. It's not going to be probably something that comes up an awful lot, but you may be able to occasionally find some seed there, but get to know other growers. There is nothing like it in any other corner of the houseplant world. Hoya growers are incredibly passionate and generous, so you never know what might turn up.
How long will Hoya seed last before it becomes not viable? Probably only a few weeks. If you do get some Hoya seed, try to sow it as soon as you can and until that point, store it in the fridge and that way it should last a little bit longer. When it comes to sowing Hoya seeds, some people choose to not put them straight into a substrate but use damp kitchen towel, kitchen paper, and put the seeds between two sheets of damp kitchen paper, misting them daily and allowing them to germinate before putting them into a substrate once they've sprouted, so that's worth considering. If you do order online, just be incredibly careful because there are lots of vendors out there who are selling things under various different names, as we've discussed before on the show. Hoya seeds are quite distinctive. They look a bit like dandelion seeds on speed because they're sort of long and capsule shaped and then they have this white parachuty bit on the end, depending on the species, but they roughly all look the same. If you get seeds that look like brassica seeds and they seemed very cheap, that's probably what they are.
I did come across a blog, which is a bit old now, last updated I think about 2017, but it does have some useful information on dealing with germinated Hoya seeds. It's called Hoya La! I'll put a link in the show notes to that, so you can see how they germinate their Hoya seeds and plant them up. So that's quite interesting. It's a shame that blog is no longer being updated, but I'll put that link in there, in case you're interested. If you've got a question for On The Ledge, drop me a line - ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com - and now back to Roos.
Jane: Tell me about when you repot a new Alocasia. What substrate do you go for? I'm imagining it's something nice and chunky and airy?
Roos: Yes, I use an airy soil mix for all of my Aroids, actually, and for my Hoyas as well. It's a mix of soil that I really like. It's not so peat-based because they try to be a little bit more aware of the environment, so they have other bits in there, like rice hulls and pieces of wood, I think. Then I add in a bunch of bark, I think it's one third, one third of each of those, and perlite as well. That makes it nice and airy for all of the Aroids and if it's a bigger plant, like my big Monsteras I might put a little bit more bark. If it's a little bit more thirsty - some of the Alocasias are a little bit more thirsty - then I might add a little bit more of the soil. Actually, I didn't tell you this yet, but I think there are two types of Alocasias. In my experiences, so this is not anything scientific or anything, but there's the ones that are quite big and that need a little bit more water and more light as well. Then there's the smaller-growing, I think a name for them, as well, is Jewel Alocasias, so the Silver Dragon and the Dragon Scale and all of those, the Black Velvet, are the more smaller form, the Jewel Alocasias, and then we have the bigger ones, like the Zebrina, the Frydek Micholitziana Maxkowskii or the actual Frydek, the variegated one. Especially in summer, you will see that the Frydeks are so, so thirsty. I have a little bit of a separation in my brain for the care for the two groups.
Jane: That's interesting. Just going back to buying Alocasias, I just had a message from a listener recently, I think it was an Alocasia they bought, which came and it was really huge, it was a really big one and it really struggled. I'm just wondering whether you find that buying mature, established plants is a bit of a false economy and that actually you get a better result with a youngish baby plant that is more able to adapt to your conditions without too much stress?
Roos: I actually think it's the opposite, at least in my experience with the Jewel, with the smaller, Alocasias. I've had so many baby Black Velvets and Silver Dragons that have struggled and then died and when I buy them as a bigger plant, then they are fine and they just continue growing and they're okay. For the smaller ones, at least, I always try and buy a mature plant and I definitely think they are worth the extra money to get them big, because the babies are so sensitive and I literally have killed - well, I try to not say that any more! - a lot of them have died in my care when they were babies, compared to when they are already mature. For the bigger types of Alocasias, I definitely think that you can buy them smaller. They seem to be a little bit stronger, like the Zebrinas, for example, but because they're so sensitive to rot, and when they're a little bit more small, the babies, then it's easier to over-water or forget to water them and then the soil dries out too much and the roots die anyway. So I actually think they are worth the extra money for a mature plant.
Jane: Yes, that's interesting. I find the same with Begonias actually. For example, a lot of people buy very little Begonia maculata wightii and really at that stage, the same thing happens, you get that same scenario where it's, like, "Oh, it's all gone pear-shaped!" and there's not enough of a root system to really make it work, so that is an interesting point. Whereas with some other genera, I would say buy a small one because it's just easier that way, so I guess it depends, but that's interesting to hear about Alocasias. If you do get into a root rot scenario, what's your emergency treatment for anything that you suspect suffering from root rot?
Roos: I actually have a few right now in recovery mode, I call it, and I'm looking at my Dragon Scale right now, that also is showing quite sad leaves, so I'm thinking I might have to do some rescuing there as well. For me, one of the signs is that the leaves are yellowing and hanging and dying. I'm looking at one now that the leaves curl backwards and that's always a sign for me that there might be an issue with the roots. Once I notice that and I take it out and all the roots are gone, I check first if the stem is still okay because if that is also rotten then... I tried to rescue, once, my Frydek had stem rot and it was a disgusting smell. There was no saving it. It was just way too late. I tried, but no. I check if the stem is still okay, if it was just the roots, then I usually pop it in perlite or Seramis, which is a like Leca but smaller pieces, so semi-hydroponics, and then I just keep it in a nice warm light humid spot. It doesn't even have to be humid to be honest, I have some on my shelves right now that are fine. I hope that roots will start to grow again and I have had good success with that. I like to have them in clear pots in the medium so that you can see if the roots are starting to grow, you can keep an eye on it. Once they have enough roots, you can always pot them back in soil, if that that's your preferred medium. So that's my usual rescue mission style.
Jane: It's obviously something you have to keep a really good eye out for. If you want to avoid this trauma though, what are the best Alocasias you'd recommend for somebody starting out with a new collection?
Roos: I think the Zebrina is amazing. I do have to say I am pretty picky. I have a specific taste, so I don't like all the look of all of them. From my collection, the ones that I think are easier are the Zebrina, mine is so big and beautiful. I actually have a yellow variegated one that is just incredible and so fun and easy, plus the stems are cute, everyone loves the stems on those. The Frydek is also quite easy in my opinion, the Micholitziana maxkowskii. I always just say Frydek because that's the easier name. It's a very fast-growing one as well. The Dragon Scale I really like, that seems to be, for me, a little bit sturdier than the Silver Dragon and the Black Velvet that I always struggle with. I think those two are popular but they are a little bit more tricky.
Jane: Do you have any sort of aesthetic rules for displaying your Alocasias, in terms of is it just a case of an individual pot and a saucer, or a cache pot, or have you ever tried to group them together, or do anything different, stylistically?
Roos: I actually had my babies - the first two that I bought were a Silver Dragon and a Black Velvet - and I had them together in a pot and it looked so beautiful. I loved the different colours and they just matched really well together. Those, unfortunately, had pests, which I didn't realise back then, I didn't even know pests were a thing in houseplants back then, so those didn't make it. In general, I like to combine plants. I currently have most of them in their own pots. I think it's easier to have them in their own pots. I have had some baby ones in the pot with my big Zebrina because that's a big, big pot and it's getting nice light, so I had the baby ones in there but they were not happy at all because they needed more water than the big one and they were at the top of the soil which usually gets drier quicker than the bottom, where the Zebrina roots were, so those were actually the ones that I had to rescue that are now in my shelves, in semi-hydro. I do like combining them, but currently, I haven't done it. I maybe, sometimes, put pots together in an outer pot, so that it looks like they're combined but they're not actually combined.
Jane: That is my favourite trick for that. Somebody messaged me with a question a couple of days ago about companion planting or mixing planted displays and worrying about the roots mixing together and I'm like, well, yes, that they will and ultimately something will out compete everything else and I think if you're going to do that mixed planting, it's fantastic, but you have to say to yourself, "I might have to repot this, or untangle this, sooner than I would if they were potted individually" so it depends how much time you've got, I guess. As you say, if you keep them in the individual pots, you can play around with different arrangements without facing a root untangling mission, which might be a bit much.
Roos: A bit of a challenge! I do have a lot of them actually. I have a big terrarium that is a plant terrarium. This is my first experiment with this.
Jane: Tell us about that. That's amazing!
Roos: I have Alocasias in there as well. It was an experiment, everything is an experiment in there because I'm no expert in terrarium building, but they are doing really well, they're growing really well, they're growing new leaves. The Silver Dragon and the Black Velvet are both doing well in there, so that is really fun. I have two of them now because the rescue ones are still struggling. Hello, my cat is coming to visit. Mickey! I hope you didn't hear that jump or just throwing over my mic almost. Go away, Mickey! He wants some attention.
Jane: They always do. Whenever I go to somewhere with cats, I'm allergic to cats, so cats know and they just come straight for you.
Roos: Yes, let's get Jane! I had a grow tent upstairs, to survive my plants in winter, but that is really big and ugly. If you've seen them, they're really big, black boxes. My boyfriend said, "Why don't you get a terrarium instead, so that you can actually see the plants?" which was like, "Yes please! Great idea!" I wanted to start with a smaller terrarium, to practise, but then, on a Dutch marketplace kind of website, I found one that was huge and very affordable, so I decided to just go for it. It is about two metres tall, including the bottom part where there's some hidden compartments to put stuff. It's 120 cm wide, so it is a really, really big tank. I started to plant that. I did a lot of workshops and looked into how that could work, what plants I wanted in there. I actually wanted this guy to hold my Anthuriums because they were starting to become too big for my small terrarium and I definitely love my Anthuriums as well. So I built it for that, but now I'm experimenting with all sorts of plants. There'sAlocasias in there, there's going to be a lot of Hoyas in there, as well, there's orchids, there's Begonias, which I was not good with before, but now I have this terrarium, so hopefully they will survive there. Yes, it's been a really, really fun experiment. I made a YouTube series about the whole build, so if people want to see more of how I actually did it and what plants are in there and what it looks like, I recommend looking at my YouTube channel, if I'm allowed to...
Jane: Of course you are allowed to self-promote your YouTube channel! Did you have that moment where you bought this thing and then you just suddenly thought, "How on earth am I going to...?" They're heavy these things, they're really heavy. Was it a trial getting it to your home?
Roos: Yes, it was a huge underestimation because I told her, "Oh this is amazing, I would love to build a plant terrarium" so she picked me, she had a lot of people interested, but she picked me. I said I can come and pick it up this weekend and then I realised it didn't fit in my car, it didn't fit in my boyfriend's car, so I actually had to rent a big van and it almost didn't fit into that van. It was in a different town and I went on a Facebook group of that town to ask for some help lifting it because they couldn't help. It was from an old man. We had neighbours, where we live, help lift it. Yes, I highly underestimated the size and the weight and realized, once we got here, that we couldn't even get it through the stairwell hole, whatever you call it, so it couldn't even live in the space where my grow tent had lived! Now it lives in the kitchen and it's actually perfect because that was a bit of a dead space area and now it's a beautiful thing to look at every day. I highly underestimated everything about it!
Jane: Wow, it's great that you had the help of the community to make it happen. I find, with those kind of things, when you really want something, you just make it work. I remember driving back from picking up a wooden rocking horse for my children in my, at the time, tiny car, with my children in the back, with this rocking horse literally hanging out of the boot, the boot lid strapped down because I just really wanted this rocking horse! It was going really cheap and I was, like, "I'm getting my children this rocking horse! I don't care!" and my husband was like, "Don't tell me what you did! I don't want to know the details! It's going to terrify me!"
Roos: That's amazing!
Jane: I can imagine that was your rocking horse! Now it's in, you've got endless potential to play with different set-ups and ways of doing things.
Roos: Yes, it's really, really fun, also, to learn so much more about plants because there's such different types of plants that are typical terrarium plants that I never looked into, like the small detail plants, the crawlers that people use. Once you look into the terrarium world, it's a whole new world, so it was really, really fun to look into that! I planted it back in October, end of October, the first planting was in and now I finally, I see some of the smaller plants starting to grow and actually become visible. I got lots of cuttings from friends and they were so small and now they're starting to show.
Jane: That's great when you can see it start to mature and become what you would envisage, but I guess it's always going to be a process of change and adaptation because these things never sit still but that's really exciting. Are there any of your Alocasias,or any other plants, that you're particularly buzzed about right now?
Roos: It is winter right now, so a lot of them look quite sad.
Jane: So true.
Roos: Which we haven't really talked about. They can go into dormancy and people are always so worried when it's fall, or winter, and the leaves are starting to hang, or they're losing lots of leaves, or even losing all of the leaves. That is part of, I feel, having Alocasias. Sometimes they make it through the winter perfectly and keep growing and sometimes they go into dormancy, but I always know that they will come back in spring, as long as, of course, they don't rot. So, right now, a lot of them are a little bit sad, which doesn't make me super-excited about them, but I have two that I'm very excited about: one I recently just bought, which is an Alocasia Ninja and it's apparently some kind of hybrid of Black Velvet, or related to Black Velvet, so it has very dark leaves, but more round, they're almost circular, I would say, and it has beautiful shimmery veins, almost like an Anthurium crystallinum. I really, really like this one. I feel like it's come out new in Europe in the last few months, so they're becoming more and more available in garden centres. I actually bought mine for €13, so they're not expensive, or rare, or hard to get, or anything. They're just new, I feel, so that's one of my favourites. The other one is a yellow variegated Frydek that I found. I don't have a lot of money to spend on plants, so don't think that I spent hundreds, or thousands, of euros on a variegated Frydek, but I found it in a grower and it is just really beautiful. It is actually looking really sad right now, I'm looking at it, but I feel like once it comes back in spring I'm very curious to see what it will look like, how the variegation will be and I'm super-excited for that one.
Jane: Well that's great and just going back to dormancy, if your plant does lose all its leaves, do you just let it dry out entirely, or how do you keep the plant in stasis until it's time for it to sprout?
Roos: I haven't really had them losing all the leaves, I try to water them a little bit less because if there's less leaves then there's also less use of the water, I feel. I just use my little gauge thingy and make sure that I don't over-water them. I'd err on the side of caution with watering, so prefer to lessen water, but I don't completely let them dry out, like I do with my Caladiums, for example. I still give them a little bit of water and enough light.
Jane: I like the ones that go dormant where you can just put the pot in the cupboard. Just dry it out completely. That's my kind of dormancy!
Roos: Yes, it's nice, but then, also, I always forget about them! My box of Caladiums, I always forget and then people are like, "Have you planted yours yet?" and I realised that I still have to do that.
Jane: Same! The number of forgotten pots is quite considerable in my case! I can sympathise with that! I wanted to also cover a little bit about struggles with plants and I know this is something that you talk about on Instagram. Struggling with too many plants, I think, is probably something we both have had in common. How do you deal with that feeling of overwhelm? How do you curate your collection so that it doesn't cause you stress?
Roos: That's a great question. I have had this several times in my journey with plants. I feel like as if you start with plants, once you get into them, I feel like everyone just buys the plants that they really like and then all of a sudden your house is super-full and you realise, "Oh, this is a little bit too much!" The first time it took me a little bit of effort because I realised that plants were becoming a chore instead of a fun chore, like something to do on my to-do list or they would all not be happy any more. It took a while for the first time to happen, but then I took action and I gave away some plants, I sold some plants or I just let go of ones that were really, really sad. Since then I've been a lot more easy, I would say, with putting my mental health over the amount of plants in my home. Once I noticed that plants are not fun anymore, I'm starting to feel the pressure of having to do a lot of chores that I don't want to do, or that I don't have time for, I start to look at which ones can I let go, which ones don't "spark joy", like Marie Kondo would say, and just be a little bit ruthless sometimes with cutting back. I feel like when you cut back, then there is space to enjoy again and then also for the plants, the plants will continue growing. I'm quite quick and maybe ruthless, or just smart, with choosing which plants can stay and which I will let go of.
Jane: I think there is a pressure that perhaps some of us who post on Instagram and have people following us on social media, feel the pressure that, okay, you've got to have this plant because it's the it- plant and everyone loves it and therefore you must have one of these. Well, no! If you don't want that Calathea orbifolia and all the stress that comes with it, just don't have it!
Roos: Good example.
Jane: I'm increasingly becoming, like, "Why would I? Yes, I could grow this plant successfully, but I do not have the time, or energy, or desire and therefore I'm not going to try to emulate the people who've got these plants because I don't feel the desire". I know the things that thrive in my house and the things that I enjoy and they're probably, to other people, a little bit weird, but that's okay.
Roos: I like weird, Jane! Weird is good.
Jane: Yes, I haven't convinced the world to start growing members of the S**axifrage family as much as I would have liked to, but there we go. I'll keep trying!
Roos: Who knows? It might come!
Jane: It might come, indeed. The revolution is still in the pipeline! Well, it's been really fantastic to chat to you. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you feel a burning desire to talk about?
Roos: I do want to say if you do feel overwhelmed with your plants, sometimes, in that moment, you don't have the energy, or the mental capacity, to get rid of plants, or to sell them, because that also can take a lot, especially for introverts. In that moment, I would say it's okay to just let them be. Maybe some of them will die, but that is part of nature. Just focus on yourself first and then, once you have a little bit of energy back, then that is a time for you to start to maybe sell some, or give some away, but put yourself over your plants. You can't do that, maybe, with your pets and your children, if you have those, but plants are going to be fine if you let them not be happy. So that's something that I'm really passionate about. Mental health is super-important to me and to keep it in a way that - I call it plant therapy - so that when I am doing something with my plants, whether it's chores, or just whatever I'm doing, that it's fun, that it's bringing me the relaxation, or the confidence, or just the satisfaction of having done something effective that day, that is the focus for me. If it feels anything different, if it feels negative, then I focus back on myself and then once I have the energy for it, I will make changes in that process. Something else that I do want to say, I am starting a planty podcast, so I'm super-excited for that!
Jane: I'm always, always loving somebody setting up a planty podcast! Tell us what it's going to be.
Roos: It's going to be in Dutch mostly, so I don't know how many of your listeners understand Dutch? When we have guests, we'll do it in English and we're hoping to get you on as a guest as well!
Jane: Woohoo!
Roos: Just throwing that out there now! My friend and I, from urbanjungling, on Instagram, we get along very well. We both like to talk about mental health and plants. We both actually have ADHD as well, so it's going to be very entertaining, and maybe a little bit chaotic, episodes! We are starting, we've got everything prepared, we have to start recording, but we haven't done that yet because she has a very busy job right now. My focus is fully on the plants, so I'm a little bit more easy, but hopefully, in spring, we'll have our first episodes out. It's still a little bit of a secret, nobody knows this yet, so this is a scoop for On The Ledge!
Jane: What's the name going to be?
Roos: It's going to be PlantenPrat, which means Plant Talk.
Jane: Well, thanks ever so much for joining me Roos! Enjoy your brand new glass box! I haven't watched the YouTube stuff, I need to go and watch that because it's very inspiring. I will put all the details for your socials in the show notes, but just tell us where we can find you on Instagram and so on?
Roos: I'm @PlantwithRoos on Instagram and Roos is the Dutch spelling of rose, so it's r-o-o-s, which I thought would make it unique. You pronounce it as Rose, but it's my unique Dutchness! On YouTube, I'm YogaandPlantwithRoos because I actually started that as a yoga channel but now it's only plants and my yoga content is hidden for my paid viewers.
Jane: That's great! Well, things evolve, like plants, and we all evolve, so that's cool! Well, it's lovely to speak to you and thanks so much for joining me today.
Roos: Thank you so much for having me, Jane.
[music]
Jane: Thanks so much to Roos and do check the show notes for some images of her Alocasias. I'll be back next Friday for more plant chat. I do hope your week is full of light, love and plants. Bye!
[music]
Jane: The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll, by The Joy Drops, The Road We Used To Travel When We Were Kids, by Komiku and Plantation, by Jason Shaw. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.
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I chat to Roos Kocken aka @plantwithroos about the joys and challenges of growing Alocasias, catch up on the On The Ledge sowalong, and answer a question about Hoya seeds.
This week’s guest
Roos Kocken from @plantwithroos is a planty person and yoga teacher from the Netherlands. Her YouTube channel is Yoga and Plant With Roos.
Patreon subscribers at the Ledge End and Superfan level can listen to bonus podcast An Extra Leaf 88 to hear more from Roos on Monstera and Begonia genera.
On The Ledge sowalong
Want to catch up with previous OTLsowalong episodes, covering everything from here to source seed to growing ferns from spores? All the sowalong episodes are listed here.
Alocasia ‘Ninja’. Photograph: @plantwithroos.
Check out the notes below as you listen…
Alocasias enjoy lots of light! If you get them used to it gradually, Alocasias can cope with a south-facing window: they may need to be moved slightly away from the window in the height of summer.
Allowing Alocasias to dry out between waterings is important to avoid root rot.
Alocasias are prone to spider mites, so when buying new plants, quarantine them and check thoroughly for spider mites infestations (white stuff on the backs of the leaves, or crablike creatures visible only with a hand lens). Roos uses predatory mites as a biological control for spider mites and has had great success. Listen to my episode on spider mites and their control here.
Substrates need to be chunky and airy for Alocasias: add bark, rice hulls, perlite etc to your usual substrate. Some Alocasias such as A. ‘Frydek’, A. micholitziana and A. zebrina are particularly thirsty so may require slightly more soil/absorptive material in the mix.
If root rot does strike, the leaves may curl backwards, and start to turn yellow, Roos places Alocasias in ‘recovery mode’, by placing in semi-hydroponics - leca or seramis - in a warm spot. Clear pots help you to see if the roots are starting to grow.
If you are beginning with Alocasias, Roos recommends A. zebrina and A. micholitziana.
Watch Roos’ video on stem propagation of Alocasias here.
Check out videos about Roos’ terrarium here.
The plants Roos is excited about are Alocasia ‘Ninja’ (pictured above) and a yellow variegated ‘Frydek’.
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
Lauren wanted to know where to obtain Hoya seeds for the On The Ledge sowalong. You may have noticed that Hoyas are not something people seem to grow from seed much - that’s because the seed needs to be sown fresh and does not stay viable for more than a few weeks, so it doesn’t make for a good product for seed sellers.
The best way to get hold of Hoya seed is to get to know growers who may be pollinating their plants. Seed pods can produce a lot of seed so there may be some spare. Hoya seed of various species does come up on eBay and Etsy sometimes, but be very careful to check the vendor is genuine. Listen back to my sourcing seed episode for my tips on this.
CHeck out the blog about germinating Hoya seeds that I mention, Hoya La!
Learn more about seed viability in my episode visiting the Millennium Seed Bank.
Want to ask me a question? Email ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. The more information you can include, the better - pictures of your plant, details of your location and how long you have had the plant are always useful to help solve your issue!
HOW TO SUPPORT ON THE LEDGE
Contributions from On The Ledge listeners help to pay for all the things that have made the show possible over the last few years: equipment, travel expenses, editing, admin support and transcription.
Want to make a one-off donation? You can do that through my ko-fi.com page, or via Paypal.
Want to make a regular donation? Join the On The Ledge community on Patreon! Whether you can only spare a dollar or a pound, or want to make a bigger commitment, there’s something for you: see all the tiers and sign up for Patreon here.
The Crazy Plant Person tier just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the show you love.
The Ledge End tier gives you access to two extra episodes a month, known as An Extra Leaf, as well as ad-free versions of the main podcast on weeks where there’s a paid advertising spot, and access to occasional patron-only Zoom sessions.
My Superfan tier earns you a personal greeting from me in the mail including a limited edition postcard, as well as ad-free episodes.
If you like the idea of supporting On The Ledge on a regular basis but don't know what Patreon's all about, check out the FAQ here: if you still have questions, leave a comment or email me - ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. If you're already supporting others via Patreon, just click here to set up your rewards!
If you prefer to support the show in other ways, please do go and rate and review On The Ledge on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you listen. It's lovely to read your kind comments, and it really helps new listeners to find the show. You can also tweet or post about the show on social media - use #OnTheLedgePodcast so I’ll pick up on it!
CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku, Chiefs by Jahzzar and Namaste by Jason Shaw.