Episode 270: carnivorous plants in the greenhouse
Sarracenias growing in Megan Web’s greenhouse. Photograph: Jane Perrone.
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TRANSCRIPT
[0:00] Music.
[0:16] Jane Perrone
I'm Jane Perrone, this is On The Ledge Podcast. How are you doing? Let's get the introductions out of the way and crack on with the show. In this week's episode, I had the delight of going to visit Megan Webb, aka Carnivorous Plant Girl, to find out all about her wonderful collection of carnivorous plants from Sarracenias and Droseras to Pinguiculas, and of course, the inimitable Venus flytrap. And I answer a question about how to tell the difference between an aerial route and a new leaf on Monstera deliciosa. Thanks for joining me this week. I hope you are having a good week. I wanted to tell you a couple of things before we get started, which were as follows. Thank you to Kyna, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, for leaving me a donation on the platform whose name I probably have gotten wrong for the past six years. I call it ko-fi.com. Sometimes people call it "coffee", but anyway, it's a place where you can make a one-off donation to On The Ledge. So thank you so much for that. And Nancy became a Ledge End after taking up my offer of a seven day free trial. Welcome Nancy. And if you want to join Kyna or Nancy, then check out the show notes for details of how to do so. Now, if you are not captivated by the world of carnivorous plants, then why are you here? Because carnivorous plants for me are one of the most fascinating groups of plants that we can grow, and I don't think I've featured enough of them On The Ledge. So I'm correcting that this week by visiting Megan Webb who is @carnivorous_plant_girl on Instagram. You can also find Megan at her YouTube channel of the same name. So on a sunny Saturday recently, I visited Megan's greenhouse to find out all about this fascinating plant group. I started the interview outside in Megan's greenhouse and in part two we'll head inside to find out how Megan's obsession with carnivorous plants started. And just to warn you, it's a bit tricky in a greenhouse to get audio that doesn't have lots of background sound. So there is a little bit of background sound. It was a windy day when we visited, so you might hear a bit of shuddering from the polycarbonate panels of the greenhouse, but I hope that you can filter that sound out and and really enjoy this chat with Megan. We talk about everything from the research she did into Sarracenias and the feeding of those species to how to look after Pinguiculas, why they make such great fungus gnat controllers. And remember, if you want to follow along with the transcript and also see pictures of many of the plants we're talking about, head on over to the show notes at janeperrone.com now.
[3:30] Jane Perrone
Megan, we're in your greenhouse. Tell me a bit about what's going on in here and what we can see.
Megan Webb
So in my greenhouse I like to have multiple genus and species, so I do I think currently have about 11 different genus of carnivorous plants. Not all of them are exclusive to in here, some of them less hardy are inside. You can probably see in the greenhouse that my favourite genus has to be Sarracenia, because of the amount I have. My main specimens stay at the back of the greenhouse due to height. Also they come in so many different shapes, sizes, colours. So obviously the tallest I've got this year is 'Brooks hybrid'which measures three foot tall. Obviously you've got some really shorter picture plants which are in my more shallow lower trays that just kind of cascade, along with loads of seedlings which are all of my seed-grown stuff and obviously dotted around is loads of multiple different genus in here including Drosera, venus flytraps, Pinguicula, Drosophyllum, Roridula and a whole mixture of different carnivorous plants of all different colours and locations.
Jane Perrone
It's absolutely beautiful, it really shows off just how beautiful carnivorous plants can be, not least the flowers of those Sarracenias, but just these amazing trumpets and that incredible tall 'Brooks hybrid'. I mean that is towering over everything else. Is that usually what's tallest or is it just this year that's gone mad?
Megan Webb
This is actually the tallest I've got so far. 'Leviathan' is actually shorter this year. Last year 'Leviathan' is meant to be taller than 'Brooks Hybrid'.
Jane Perrone
Okay.
Megan Webb
But so far 'Leviathan' has not currently matched it.
Jane Perrone
No, Leviathan is looking fairly standard amongst the other ones. I mean 'Leviathan''s got this lovely white and green with streaks of red there, and then 'Brooks hybrid' has got this incredible lime green with dark red veins. I mean both stunning. The flowers also are otherworldly on these. Sarracenias, tell me a little bit about Sarracenia care. They presumably really love it in this... is it an unheated greenhouse out here?
Megan Webb
Yeah, unheated all year round. They will experience the frost during the winter. During the wintertime they will die back down, completely so these will just be mainly empty pots with maybe a couple of non-carnivorous leaves which are known as phyllodia, which is how they photosynthesize over the winter time. They're super easy to care for, they literally don't really need much care or maintenance at all during the year. They will grow up as you can see in the beautiful specimens that I've got before me and this is kind of how they remain. Some of them will only get one or two pitches in a year, others will get a big cluster of pitches and it'll vary really on the different types of species that you've got and the hybrids and obviously the colours as well, but they're super easy ones and I definitely recommend them for someone who's got an unheated greenhouse that would like to grow a carnivorous plant, because these ones just kind of sit, look beautiful year-round. You can flower without them having obviously any effects, unlike the fly traps, if they flower they get a bit weakened. The Sarracenia can go through all the stages and they have all the beatings and all that, any of the weather and they're absolutely fine and they're also a perfect one especially in the UK to be outside year-round especially the flavas including like the 'Brooks hybrid' for example you know it's very tall so probably get snapped in the wind if it's a windy area but these are all make a great display outside as you probably saw as your way in.
Jane Perrone
[16:47] These are obviously from in a way a probably a fairly similar climate to us in North America. People often get them mixed up with obviously the tropical..Nepenthes pitcher plants, but these ones really do love an unheated greenhouse if you're looking for something that, as you say, doesn't need heat, which you know in the current fuel crisis we're probably all possibly looking for, they work really well. What are the other keystones for caring for these? Presumably a nice soft water is important. I can see that you've got these in big trays, how much water is in the bottom of those trays and does that vary at different of year?
Megan Webb
So yeah, during the growing season, so that's usually any time between March all the way to October, I'll keep them sitting in about an inch to a centimetre at least of rainwater. I do have a reverse osmosis filter as well in the summer, sometimes if obviously you've got the water shortage, like last year it didn't rain here for three months. I've got 740 litres worth of water storage, but obviously when it gets to that kind of extreme you're using so much for these plants. An RO water system or even buying distilled water from like a Spotless Water Station is helpful for any grower who'll see needs the rainwater for their plants, as tap water is a definite no-go due to the minerals that are in the tap water. But it's very easy just to use soft water and getting a TDS meter which kind of just measures the minerals in the water, so you kind of know what your water content is. Anything under 50 parts per million or PPM is perfect for these plants and will keep them happy year round. So yeah, other than sitting in the water, as much sun as you can give them. So my greenhouse is south-facing, it will get the sun from the second that the sun rises in the morning until it sets in the evening, which also produces that really vibrant colour amongst the Sarracenia. If you obviously have a shaded spot or less light, then you'll start to see that the pitchers won't be as bright. It's windy here today. I've brought the wind with me.
[8:43] Megan Webb
On the joys of living near the coast I think.
Jane Perrone
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, they are really, really stunning, these pitchers. And do you get some, presumably, that are really quite small?
Megan Webb
You've got some here that are maybe 10, 20 centimetres tall. Is that as big as they're going to get? You do get some smaller types? Some of them are, yes. So, for example, low-growing, which is the Huntsman's Horn or the Sarracenia purpurea, that will always stay about this height. They are quite short, about 10 centimeters. Some of them are stumpy. There is actually dwarf versions of Sarracenia as well. You'll find that younger plants like this will get a little bit taller but obviously will stay kind of in that 40 centimetre, maybe 60 centimetre max compared to others which obviously can get up to 3 foot tall or you know about 100 centimetres or something like that. Where obviously seedlings as well will also vary when you're doing hybrids from seed you'll find that some of them will be a lot shorter depending on the parentage you might cross something with a short plant and seedling itself will remain quite short itself too.
Jane Perrone
If somebody, I know some people buy these from the garden centre, they think oh doesn't that look cool and they put them on a windowsill in their house, is there any way of keeping them alive inside the house or is it just too hot come winter, time? Would you need to move them somewhere cooler?
[10:00] Megan Webb
Yeah I would. I definitely recommend, if you wanted to grow a Sarracenia or any other carnivorous plant really on a south-facing window, then it's absolutely fine during the growing season. It's during that winter season where they want to be, ideally below 10 degrees from in between October and February, so that's best to move them into even unheated greenhouse, cold shed maybe, garage, just something where they are still going to get light because they still want to photosynthesize over the winter, but also just going to be in that cooler period. Even a porch. Before I had my greenhouse, I kept mine in the unheated porch and it stayed under 10 degrees the entire wintertime and still provided them enough coolness for their winter dormancy. During this time as well you reduce the watering, so you don't want to dry out completely because this will still kill them. You just kind of want to keep them damp, so if you had them in a saucer of water for example, you'd let that source of water dry out between each watering and you wouldn't let it just sit in water all the time.
Jane Perrone
And some of these little sundews are so adorable. Some of these are the size of, oh my gosh, smaller than my little pink pinky finger nail. Are they going to stay that small? Is that the size they're going to get to? Or are they seedlings?
[11:13] Megan Webb
No, these are pygmy sundews, which are the smallest species of sun dew in the world. I've currently got 21 species of pygmy sundews. They are my favourite species of Drosera and they are literally small. The smallest I've got is Drosera occidentalis which is literally like five millimetres.
Jane Perrone
I mean I am looking at some of those little rosettes, I mean I can't hardly see, my vision isn't great anyway, but I'm looking at them going they are so tiny, even the largest one is still absolutely minuscule and so adorable.
Megan Webb
The largest pygmy sundew I do believe is five centimetres which is Drosera scorpioides because it has an upright growing fashion, but they are all small growing Drosera, yet they are still able to take down bluebottles and greenbottles. I've seen them, you know, capturing some really large insects and I've seen a group in a pot, they look stunning and that's how they kind of capture bigger insects because it will fly in and get stuck on multiple plants. So it's kind of like a group effort in that kind of sense, but no, I do love my, pygmy sundews because the flowers on some of these are stunning.
Jane Perrone
This one, look at this, the flowers on that are amazing. Is that Micrantha? Yeah. Really, I mean again, I'm taking my, lifting my sunglasses up here because it's so subtle but you've got this amazing gradation of colour from rusty red through green to white and they're just so cute, and that one, I just think that just is the most I can't read I'm not looking...
Megan Webb
Drosera admirabilis.
Jane Perrone
Admirilis. The rosettes on that are just perfect.
Megan Webb
Yeah they've got that nice olive tint to the green as well, so you know it's coming all different forms. I would definitely say that Drosera is maybe, topping Sarracenia a little bit because that was the one I started with was the Drosera capensis which is a nice red one at the back. And that's kind of how I started my carnivorous plant journey, was collecting Drosera and I've kind of found the love for the pygmy sundews and then kind of collected a bit more. But as there isn't as many pygmy sundews that would do well in an unheated greenhouse, a lot of them are more tropical or subtropical which haven't done well in my unheated greenhouse during the winter, why I've kind of focused more on the Sarracenia because they're obviously a lot easier to grow in the conditions that I've got.
Jane Perrone
Drosera capensis, that is the one that you do see for sale lots of places isn't it? And I mean we should just say the way these sundews are working is through these little drops of this sticky, stuff which just is absolutely world class at catching insects isn't it? and it's interesting to see how, as you say, incredible skills at catching insects and these ones rolling up the long strappy leaves of things like capensis, do they roll up to make sure they can, maximize the stickiness for when they've caught something?
Megan Webb
Yeah, so different sundews will work differently, most of them do all have leaves which move, so for example you can see with my 'Hercules' at the back here, these ones are folded up completely. Drosera regia, I've got a few of these, as younger ones they they're quite extreme, I don't know if we've got any that have captured insects but sometimes they will like curl in on themselves, like this one for example is one of my younger Drosera regia and their leaves are phenomenal how they curl around, like you can see here, the plant has literally just wrapped itself around several times over that insect. So different Drosera will obviously take insects in different fashions, but the Drosera regia is probably the most extreme of doing it because of you know, how much it can move its leaf. Some of them only just kind of curl their tips, others of them don't really move much at all. Some of them can move so much that they can wrap around the entire thing and coat the entire insect.
Jane Perrone
And we mustn't forget that obviously the Venus flytrap, which is kind of, I guess the the entry point for so many people to carnivorous plants but you know it always distresses me how many times you see these in the garden centre and you wonder how many make it past a few weeks of survival because - again, once you know what you're doing I guess it's not that hard but lots of people make lots of mistakes - what are the most common mistakes with Venus flytraps?
Megan Webb
Definitely that people think their houseplants - I think they again same care of the Sarracenia, so they're from Northern America too. So these are ones that are usually from North Carolina and they will have the hot summers and the cooler winters where they also experience frost, so they're perfectly hardy for an unheated greenhouse or even in my bog barrels. They actually do probably a little bit better outside because I've got so much, access to so many insects. Again, full sun is obviously really important and I would probably say even more than a self-facing windowsill if you want that kind of vibrant color, especially with inside the traps. But they do still do quite well in the south facing or even under strong grow lights. But again, it's that winter period and with Venus flytraps that winter dormancy is a must for them. They're a little bit weaker, I'd say, compared to Sarracenia. Flowering does take a lot out of them, but some of them wants obviously the nice healthy established plants and flowering, letting them flower is absolutely fine. A lot of people do think that when a flytrap flowers it will die, because it does weaken a plant. Obviously if your plant is quite weak already or you know, it's not very healthy, and I recommend cutting them off. The flowers obviously are white, they're not exactly the most attractive, but they are really great if you want to grow from seed. I like to collect seed from mine and do different crosses for the flytraps obviously to get that nice vibrant colour and they're quite rewarding to grow from seed as well. But you can kind of see with the fly trap that they're lovely, lovely plants but they just need a little bit more specialist care I think, which is definitely overlooked when sold as a house plant within garden centres and supermarkets.
Jane Perrone
Yeah you're right, it really that's that is the problem I mean it's always fascinating to me that I presume this is an evolutionary thing that the flowers are held a long way above the traps because obviously they need pollinators to come in and pollinate but not necessarily get caught in the traps when they're pollinating but you're right the flowers aren't tremendously exciting are they but as you say if you want to go to that next level and get seed then it's a great way of doing it. I love these dark red ones what's this really dark red one here, is this one of your hybrids?
That's 'Red Piranha', so as you can see by the teeth, it's got piranha-like teeth, so the rest of these are all cultivars, so that's just a typical venus flytrap, that was actually one I got seven years ago, and it's been like my kind of specimen piece throughout that time. All of these are different cultivars, so you can see some are similar, so this is 'Trev's Red Dentate', which is very similar to 'Red Piranha', but you kind of have that different variation between how the traps come out green, also about the nectar, you can probably see on the inside that shiny bit to attract insects. Some are really large, so for example you've got stuff like 'Beastie Boy' here's got quite a large trap.
Jane Perrone
Oh 'Beastie Boy', well there you go. I mean I'm a sucker for a good cultivar name, like that's a great cultivar name. I'm presuming there's so much breeding happening to produce new cultivars all the time I imagine.
Megan Webb
Yeah that's the thing because when you do a hybrid, I've got a couple of my own here, so I've got my first variegated fly trap here.
Jane Perrone
Oh wow, okay.
Megan Webb
Which is one I did myself, which is a southwest giant crosses shark's teeth hence why it's got that shark teeth on there and it might get large traps like the southwest giant so this is my, southwest giant here. When a fly trap does come out from seed it's classed as a typical, so for now this is a typical and it only becomes a cultivar once you officially register the name. Otherwise if you are growing from seed, whether they come out different or not, they are known as typicals, because even my typical that I've got the back there has got different traits compared to other typicals I've seen. In the autumn time that goes like a blood red burgundy colour and it has like a really nice rim around it, but regardless it is still a typical, but you get so much variation with the flytraps, but it's very hard to keep up that and you don't want to then start, you know, selling them as something that they're not.
[18:47] Jane Perrone
Right, so the variegation on that is kind of ... on the traps you've got red mottling, are you hoping to develop that variegation further?
Megan Webb
So first of all I just want to see whether it's stable or not, so I did this one back in 2020, so it's it's been three years now with obviously having this cross. The variegation has remained stable, but the next thing was to kind of do some asexual propagation, so by flower stalk cuttings or some leaf cuttings, just to see whether that variegation is stable for us to make more clones. And that's when I'd probably start considering maybe potentially making it into a cultivar myself. I could name that and then obviously sell it as something else. Otherwise at the moment, it hasn't really got much significance in just being how it is. You kind of want to know that it is stable before obviously start advertising it as something different.
Jane Perrone
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting you say about flower stalk cuttings. I was blown away when I realized that you could do that with Venus flytraps. What are the other ways you can propagate? Can you take cuttings of a leaf or a stem?
Megan Webb
Yeah, so with flytraps you want to probably do a leaf pulling rather than a cutting. It won't really work if you just cut a section of the leaf, but if you was to take it and have that white bit from the rhizome still intact, then yes you can do leaf pullings really, where with Drosera you could literally snip off like a tip of a leaf and it will grow. I do have some in the pot down there that I can show you as well. So they kind of all have different ways to propagate them. I prefer the asexual methods the best because you get the exact clones of the plants that you're doing. Sometimes obviously I do like to grow it from seeds, especially with the typical ones because you still get that variation. It's nice to give away trades with other growers as well, just to kind of spread your plants around to the community as well.
Jane Perrone
Tell me about this really big sundew you've got at the back here, that's a beast.
[20:33] Megan Webb Yes, so this is my Drosera binata var. dichotoma. So this year it's three foot wide itself, I have, stringed it up a little bit because it does get extremely wide. So this is probably one of the first sundews I got actually and this is not the giant form, there is a giant form. Oh my gosh, how big is the giant form? It's huge, I recently got the giant form, it's on the outside of the the greenhouse. The leaves obviously do get phenomenal and you can see, you know, some of them, like the multifida I think it's called, has about 40 points to its leaves, where obviously this one has about six to eight different points. But you can see the leaves individually are absolutely huge.
Jane Perrone
They're like sort of antlers aren't they?
Megan Webb
Yeah.
Jane Perrone
I mean any insect that comes in here is doomed, basically, there's just no escape, whether it's the sundews, the venus fly traps, the sarracenias. I mean do you, if you look inside the sarracenias at the end of the season, do you find they're absolutely loaded with flies presumably?
Megan Webb
Yes, I mean it's quite gruesome but I do like doing it. Satisfying maybe! When I cut them I often do get a knife and I'll run it along the pitcher and opening it up and you are literally surprised because you know with this many you don't think there's enough going around or you don't expect them to actually be full but you will find that the insects do go up quite, high within the pitchers which you know when you're not sat here all the time go is there any insects in here? How many are in here? But now you are actually really truly surprised, especially what comes out of something that's about 3ft. I did that one last year it was I think 92 centimeters last year, 'Brooks Hybrid', and I split it open and it did, it traveled up most of the picture.
Jane Perrone
Wowzers! Tell me a little bit about this. Is this some kind of pinguicula we've got here on this rock?
So yeah, these are Mexican Pinguiculas that I've got on here. Most of my collection is on the inside but I do like to bring the rock out during the summer times. It just helps them colour up a little bit more. It's on my lower side, so it's a little bit more shadier, it doesn't get that direct sun so much being this low. And this has got different species of Pinguicula on it. Obviously again, would need the winter protection. They don't do obviously well in an unheated greenhouse year-round. In the summer they don't mind it being outside an unheated greenhouse as long as obviously it's not full intense sun. So this is basically a lava rock which wicks up water on its own. I've then filled the pores that are naturally on this rock with sphagnum moss and then I've obviously planted pings all over it and obviously then, they get stuck to the rock so I can now water this from above and none of the pings will run off because they put those roots down. They've only got shallow roots that are quite a nice one to establish onto a rock and you get all that vibrant color and eventually this moss spreads across the rock.
This I would say is only a year and a half old, so I think it's my second summer with this rock and it's actually done quite well. I think I kind of survived on it over winter, when I brought it in. I did get quite worried because I did leave it out here I think until December just before we had that frost.
Jane Perrone
Oh yeah.
Megan Webb
I was like "oh god". But they are quite hardy considering.
Jane Perrone
I mean these people are always raving about pinguiculas for, you know, fungus gnat infestations inside. They're like flypaper basically, aren't they? Do they catch a lot of fungus gnats when you have them inside?
Megan Webb
Oh yeah, the ones I've got inside I'll often stick in various locations around the kitchen and they can sometimes be absolutely smothered in the amount of fungus gnats, fruit flies, everything that you find inside. They're the perfect companion plant really with house plants because they can take that kind of east or west-facing windowsill along with any of your low light houseplants and they sit nicely so when you have all that annoying gnats and all that fly around your house, they will just kind of pick them off one by one, so it's quite nice to have them in between houseplants I'd say, because it does, I know a friend of mine gave him a few, stuck them in between his houseplants, he sent me a picture of how many were on, them within a couple of days. So they are the perfect plant for inside, the Pinguicula.
Jane Perrone
Yeah and that's the thing isn't it, it's much nicer than sticky traps much more attractive than a sticky trap for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
[24:29] Music.
[24:40] Jane Perrone
More from my chat with Megan soon, but now it's time for question of the week and it comes from Graham and concerns the Swiss cheese plant. Monstera deliciosa. I always think that sounds a bit like a magic spell. Anyway, on with the question. Graham has a variegated Monstera leaf and cutting and it was delivered as a leaf with a T-shaped stem plus one aerial root and Graham placed it in sphagnum moss and it grew some shoots from the aerial root, but unfortunately the aerial root rotted away and the remains went back into the water and Graham is left with a bit of stem, a petiole, a leaf blade, the leaf itself and something else has started growing. Graham is not sure if it's a leaf or another aerial root and what to do from now. What I'm looking at in Graham's picture is indeed the start of a new leaf that's coming out of what's called an axillary bud, which comes out the side of the stem. It's really handy if you know what's what when it comes to the different parts of your Swiss cheese plant. So let's run through a few terms.
[25:54] The stem, the main stem of that's pretty obvious. Along that stem we'll find there's a point where the leaf stalk, known as the petiole, joins that main stem and that's called the node. It's a bumpy bit. And in between those nodes, that's known as the internode, handily enough. Now when we get into looking at the growth point of the plant, on a regular plant, not on this wet stick, but on a regular plant, we'll see that the new leaf emerges from the petiole, the leaf stalk of the previous leaf, in what's called a petiolar sheath. And I'll, I think I'm going to have to do a video of this on Instagram and TikTok to show you what I mean. You can find me on Instagram as @j.l.perrone and TikTok as @ontheledgepodcast. So yeah, the new leaf emerges from the petiolar sheath, but in this case where the stem's been cut, then the axillary bud will be activated and that is where this new leaf is emerging from. Where do the aerial roots come into it? Well, in my experience, the aerial roots, when you first look at the plant, particularly a plant that's mature, it just looks like a mess of roots. But when you get in and examine them, you'll notice a couple of things. The leaves come out in.
[27:19] Alternate directions. So one leaf will go to the right if you're looking at the stem and the next leaf up will be pointing in the opposite direction, a little higher up the stem. If you start looking at plants a lot you'll notice that some plants have opposite leaves where you have leaves coming out of exactly the same point. But in this plant, the Monstera deliciosa, that's not the case. The the leaves come out alternately. And if we look at the point where that leaf comes out through the petiole, if we examine the opposite side of that node, usually that's where the nub that is the aerial root will emerge from. And you can tell the difference between the aerial root and the bud coming out the other side, because the bud tends to be pointy, whereas the aerial root is, generally kind of has a sort of a brown coating and is more nub-like, if I can put it that way. So those are some of the terms that you might come across when you're looking at the structure of your Monstera deliciosa and thinking about what comes where.So yeah, the node, check it out, you'll find the aerial root coming out one side and the petiole, the leaf stalk, coming out the other side and also the axillary bud will come out just next to that leaf stalk if the growth point is cut off above it. I hope that makes sense. Do check out the show notes where I'll do a little video and also post Graham's picture and maybe I'll find a good diagram of what's what.
[28:52] All of this is useful because when you're coming to chop down or propagate a Monstera, if you know what's going to come where, then it will help you understand your plant better, which is what we're all about On The Ledge. Well, I hope that helps a little bit, Graham. Yes, you've got an axillary bud bursting into life and making new life, I think that what will happen with the roots is that the aerial root will probably reactivate itself. These plants are hard to kill. It will root. It may take a little bit more time, but it's looking good. And once the plant's putting out that active growth, it's gaining more power to photosynthesize, which will then encourage it to produce roots too. And it's worth saying with aerial roots, Unlike, say, a leaf stalk, if you break a leaf stalk off a Monstera deliciosa, you're not going to get a new leaf emerging from there. But the aerial roots, yes, if they are broken and damaged, they will regrow, they'll branch. So that's why you should get fresh roots off this piece of stem, Graham. But I'd love to hear an update, Graham, if you can tell me how your plant is getting on. If you've got a question for On The Ledge, why not drop me a line - ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com is the best way of getting in touch. And if you haven't subscribed to my newsletter, The Plant Ledger, well, this is a job for the weekend. Head to janeperrone.com/ledger. You can read old editions and sign up and you'll get your free guide to dealing with fungus gnats and access to the latest lowdown on what's going on in the world of houseplants. Right, back to Megan and we've discovered the wonderful collection of plants that Megan has but now it's time to find out where this all started and dig a bit deeper into Megan's research into the world of Sarracenias.
[30:54] I need to know where this all started because this is a passion that's obviously is very deep-seated. Where did it come from and how did you get into carnivorous plants?
Megan Webb
So I'll probably say this is probably one of the most spontaneous things that ever happened to me. So I've been growing carnivorous plants for 10 years now and it literally was from reading a horticultural magazine around my nan. She had quite a pile of them. I was just flicking through, saw a little snippet that spoke about Venus flytraps and how they ate insects and then a couple of days later I went to B&Q and saw some there and went I'm gonna try this. Got home,and I actually then started reading books and stuff like that which I've never really been interested in something like this before especially not plants it wasn't something I was you know I'm really drawn to but you know I kept reading kept doing research thought I knew a lot, then killed it and usually that was for me when I was back then because I was only 13 at the time I would just kind of give up I wouldn't do anything else but I didn't - I then decided to do even more research. I then looked at reputable sellers online rather than buying them from a shop which it didn't look great when I got it anyway and I brought my Drosera capensis that I was speaking to you about earlier and that obviously the plant was a lot healthier when it arrived it had quite a few plants in there so I was like okay we could do this and I grew that one happily just on my bedroom windowsill, actually, for a year or two and I really got the hang of it and that's where my love of props started as well because from there then I would sow the seeds, I eventually made up enough courage to divide the plant as well, and I really, really just enjoyed focusing on this one plant and that time I was in high school I'd come home and that would be something I'd do in the evening and I was like well I've only got one plant, eventually it came the same of loads of different plants, I was like, I'll try something else. Eventually I got another flytrap, and then grew that, did more propagation and decided oh I've got to get a few more. And I kind of never looked back after that and eventually obviously my whole windowsill was full, I had them dotted all around the house and that's eventually when I decided to get a greenhouse because I was like well I'm not going to have any more space but I found this love and I found this hobby that I wasn't prepared to give up so I then got the greenhouse and decided that's what I was going to do. And I thought at first I'd have half coniferous, half alpine because I like my alpines and all that as well. It never turned out like that, and as you can see I'm now struggling for space because I've run out of space in the greenhouse.
Jane Perrone
And was that, did that tip you into a career in horticulture because you're a professional horticulturist as well? Was that how that came about too?
Megan Webb
Yeah, so I decided, because I grew carnivorous plants at the time, when it came to college I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I had two days a week where I had to do some volunteering, and I decided to go and volunteer in the Beth Chatto Gardens, which is obviously where I work now and I learned more about normal plants, because I hadn't really still focused on normal typical plants at this point. Did the garden, I loved those as well, you know, I just loved everything plant-related, horticulture, I got to do loads of different things from general maintenance to potting, even prop there as well. And eventually I decided I was going to do a degree in horticulture. So obviously studied the degree, got to focus a lot more on carnivorous plant research at this time as well. That's what I think where it obviously sparked my interest and I started then, you know, promoting myself through that and going well I could teach other people about this as well. So I did a lot of work, did a lot of research, obviously done quite a few papers and won the awards for my carnivorous plant research as well which you know if I look back on it now I don't know how that happened. You know it started off something so crazy, that I wouldn't even have thought of collecting something like this and now I could never give it up.
Jane Perrone
What were you actually researching?
Megan Webb
So my dissertation was based on the morphological characteristics of Sarracenia seedlings in response to supplementary nutrients.
Jane Perrone
Okay, I think I can translate that. Yeah, so and what were your... can you give us... I know it's hard to give us a potted version of what your conclusions were. What did you find out?
So basically my trials in summary was basically feeding trials on traits of Sarracenia. So there was 45 Sarracenia seedlings in total, 15 in each tray. One was a control which it had no feed It was just natural and two had different feeds. One was a foliar feed and the other one was a soil based feed Right. And surprisingly what I actually found from that experiment was by feeding Sarracenia in particular, they then reverted to producing more colour or to less traps on the actual plant because they don't need the energy anymore to go and put traps out for insects, where the normal ones were putting out larger traps, wider traps, less colour, but more nectar in order to obviously attract insects to capture for that nutrient gain, where if you was aiding in the nutrient gain, they weren't really becoming the carnivorous plants that we know and love. And obviously the experiment only lasted three months because it was just while I was doing my university research, so it might have been a bit different if I was to do it again, but, at the same time it kind of did have that pattern of what I didn't expect, you know lot of people go you feed the plants they get bigger and they look lovely. I found the opposite and the fact that they actually were reverting back and, being more colourful, which were beautiful ones that were colourful, which were the soil fed ones, but it wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted larger traps, bigger seedlings.
Jane Perrone Right, yeah that's interesting isn't it and as you say doing that kind of research really helps you to find an actual answer to a question and what would you recommend, how has that affected how you're growing your Sarracenias now in terms of are you feeding them at all or are you just letting the traps grow big?
Megan Webb
No I've just decided that I'm just going to grow naturally. I was debating at one point the seedlings that I've done over the last couple years, should I feed those as well? But I was like, feeding them in my experiences in the past hasn't really done much. I will sometimes feed like Heliamphoras and stuff inside because in the propagator they don't really get access to the insects. I find that does help them a bit more but in the greenhouse the Sarracenia have so many access to so many insects, even seedlings, once they put out their first couple of larger traps you don't need to feed them anymore they're you know they capture, all the small like gnats and fruit flies just fly into the greenhouse naturally or ants and stuff like that, so they've never really needed that and some growers might prefer to feed their traps because it might be better for them, but personally I would say that no - the insects are far better to go and it you, know prevents the amount of hassle I'd need to go through to feed the plant as well.
Jane Perrone
Yeah absolutely. And so where are you going next with your collection? You're obviously doing hybridising. What's next for you expanding your carnivorous plant empire?
Megan Webb
So I think for now I would like to focus on Sarracenia hybrids. I would love to start naming my own cultivars and doing something different. So I've started collecting a lot rarer and more expensive Sarracenia named hybrids and stuff which are very hard to get hold of and crossing those with even harder to access plants to hope get some like really nice plant out of it. Name the plant and go from there. But in terms of of like just using my collection it's become quite a nice point for me to use obviously throughout my social media and to spread the message. I've got some nice specimens which I've taken with me when I've done talks and stuff and people really enjoy just like looking at them and I love to just share the plants that I've grown so some of them in there obviously been there for seven years or so, and they've obviously got nice big specimens which I could take with me and share and show off to other people. I even took them to work and, you know, people there love them, so it's just kind of getting that message across to how amazing these plants are and how they're not houseplants and how easy they are to keep. We can preserve the future of carnivorous plants if obviously more people are aware of their care and how beautiful they are and they're not just the novelty items that a lot of people see nowadays.
Jane Perrone
And lots of people listening to this will probably be thinking, oh dear I have not been looking after my carnivorous plants correctly now I realize like having my Sarracenia on a you know in a dark room in the house. What's the best way for those people who perhaps had disappointments in the past with carnivorous plants, what's your best advice in terms of what to start with that works and is easy, any tips?
Megan Webb
Plant wise I'll probably say that whether you've grown carnivorous plants before or looking to start your own collection, you can't go wrong with a subtropical Drosera as I showed you, they will grow anywhere. And I always kind of, my little saying is, you can't grow a capensis then you shouldn't really grow carnivorous plants because it's such an easy one to keep. Obviously there's some people I've met can't grow a capensis but they can grow like a Heliamphora absolutely amazingly.
Jane Perrone
Where are we going next with carnivorous plants? Are there sort of anything new happening in terms of new hybrids or new species that are becoming more common that we need to know about?
[39:38] Megan Webb
Well, as I showed you earlier, the Darlingtonia, so it's one that not many people know about, but have started appearing a lot more within cultivation. So originally they were deemed as quite hard to take care of because they don't really like the summer as much. If they get hot roots then they will die. They like where they naturally live is at high altitudes with running water, but I find that they do quite well either outside, obviously if you keep them in your containers or pots really moist, or even, hence why it's on the lower side of my greenhouse, in that little bit more protected shady and cooler environment they do really well. We've also even seen that Cephalotus for example which again is another one that's been deemed hard to take care of but again getting those conditions right then they're actually really easy plants to take care of but you're starting to see them creep up like before I left the old place where I worked I even saw Utricularia which is the bladderwort appear in garden centres so it's nice that they are slowly coming, I know the RHS as well has also done some work and you're getting like for example they want to introduce 'Brook's Hybrid' for example into cultivation for more growers to get a better experience rather than you see the typical like couple in the gardens and all these the same ones so it's actually quite nice to see more variation, granted it's going be in the garden centre still, but if there is more variation and there will be more care hopefully coming along with that if big producers are you know selling them on and you'll be accessed to better care that's a guidance and there'll be more people talking about them as well.
Jane Perrone
Fantastic, well that's got to be a good thing, you're obviously totally smitten with carnivorous plants and I'm sure you pass that enthusiasm on to everyone you meet, so thank you very much Megan.
Megan Webb
Thank Thank you for having me, it's been great.
[41:16] Music.
[41:24] Jane Perrone
Much for joining me this week and thanks to my guest Megan and do check out her YouTube channel and Instagram and the pictures in the show notes at janeperrone.com you'll find all the info you need to fully enjoy this episode there and if you're a Patreon subscriber there's a little chunk of chat that I, had with Megan about growing carnivorous plants outside in tubs which you can enjoy over on my Patreon page, accessible to Ledge End and Superfan level.
[41:58] Music.
[42:09] That's all for this episode. I will be back two weeks hence, but if you've got a question, a comment or a conspiracy theory even, do drop me a line. I love to hear from listeners and find out what you want to hear from On The Ledge, you can get in touch at ontheledgepodcast.gmail.com or drop a comment on the episode's show notes. Bye! The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops, The Road We Used To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku, and Whistle by Benjamin Banger. All tracks are licensed under creative commons, visit the show notes for details.
[42:54] Music.
Photograph: Jane Perrone.
I meet Megan Webb to talk Sarracenias, flytraps, sundews and more. Plus I answer a question about Monstera anatomy.
This week’s guest
Megan is a UK-based carnivorous plant enthusiast, collector, writer and blogger. You can find Megan on YouTube and Insta and her blog is The Carnivorous Greenhouse.
She works as a horticulturist at the Beth Chatto gardens in Essex and won an Aberconwy Award for her thesis ‘The Morphological Characteristics of Sarracenia Seedlings in Response to Supplementary Nutrients’.
Patreon subscribers at the Ledge End and Superfan tier can listen to An Extra Leaf 115 where I chat to Megan about growing carnivorous plants in tubs outside.
Chapters
0:03:30 Interview with Megan Webb in her greenhouse
0:05:18 Tips for growing Sarracenias
0:10:00 Sarracenias indoors
0:11:13 Pygmy sundews
0:13:11 How sundews catch prey
0: 14:47 Venus flytrap care
0:18:47 A huge sundew
21:58 Mexican Pinguiculas mounted on a lava rock
0:24:31 Q&A - telling the difference between Monstera aerial roots and new leaves
0:30:45 Part two of the interview with Megan Webb - how she started her collection aged 13
0:34:23 Megan’s research into Sarracenias and feeding
0:38:40 Tips for people starting out with carnivorous plants
0:39:20 New developments in the world of carnivorous plants including wider availability of Darlingtonia
Check out these notes as you listen…
Care tips for Sarracenia
Sarracenia come from North American so they thrive in unheated greenhouses or outdoor environments with full sun exposure and are surprisingly hardy - they can be grown outdoors in the UK in tubs and containers. Bright sunlight brings out the strongest colours in pitcher plants.
Sarracenias winter dormancy, losing above-ground growth and retaining non-carnivorous leaves (phyllodia) - if kept indoors they can be fine on a south-facing windowsill over summer, but in winter they need to be moved somewhere cool and light, such as a porch, shed or greenhouse.
Watering with soft water (rainwater, filtered water) is crucial for carnivorous plants. A TDS meter can help you tell whether your water is hard or soft - it needs to be under 50PPM to be suitable for CPs. Megan uses a Reverse Osmosis (RO) system to provide water if her supply of rainwater runs out. Another source of suitable water for carnivorous plants in the UK are Spotless Water stations.
The tallest pitcher in Megan’s greenhouse this summer is ‘Brooks Hybrid’. Perhaps surprisingly, ‘Leviathan’ is much shorter!
Venus flytrap care
Venus flytraps require winter dormancy and should be kept below 10 degrees Celsius
Flowering weakens the plants; some growers recommend removing flowers to maintain plant health, but you can leave them on if you want to collect seeds.
Venus flytraps can be propagated vegetatively through leaf pullings as well as flower stalk cuttings.
‘Red Piranha' and 'Beastie Boy' are two of the cultivars I discuss with Megan.
Insights on pygmy sundews (Drosera species)
Pygmy sundews are the smallest species of sundew, some as tiny as 5mm
Sundews have leaves that move and capture insects in various ways
Mexican Pinguiculas are effective in controlling fungus gnats and fruit flies indoors - they can be kept indoors all year round or placed outside in summer. Megan has some growing on a lava rock stuffed with sphagnum moss to emulate how they grow in the wild.
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
Graham got in touch with a question is about his variegated Monstera deliciosa plant (pictured left). The root on his cutting had rotted away, but a new growth is emerging from the stem, and Graham is unsure if it's a leaf or another aerial root. I am sure this is a new leaf coming in the form of an axillary bud on the stem. Aerial roots typically emerge from the opposite side of the node from where the leaf emerges.
If you want to take a look at a video of me showing the various parts of a Monstera’s anatomy, check out my Instagram.
Want to ask me a question? Email ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. The more information you can include, the better - pictures of your plant, details of your location and how long you have had the plant are always useful to help solve your issue.
HOW TO SUPPORT ON THE LEDGE
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku and Whistle by BenJamin Banger (@benjaminbanger on Insta; website benjaminbanger.com).