Episode 278: Gardening is Murder with Marta McDowell
An illustration from Gardening is Murder, by the illustrator Yolanda V Fundora.
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Transcript
[0:00] Music.
Jane Perrone
Maybe you're killing your plants, but are your plants trying to kill you? Prepare for houseplant homicide in this week's show as I talk with Marta McDowell about her new book, Gardening is Murder. I thought for Halloween week we'd go a little bit off-piste to find out how mystery writers have been inspired by plants and gardens. Whether you are a Halloween enthusiast or naysayer, it matters not, this episode is a fun diversion from normal life. To take a look at the wonderful genre of the mystery novel, also known as crime fiction or murder mysteries, and how they relate to gardens, plants and planty people. And there's no better person to talk about that than Marta McDowell, whose other works include Beatrix Potter's Gardening Life and All the President's Gardens. So settle down with a small glass of sherry beside a roaring fire and enjoy our chat.
Marta McDowell
I'm Marta McDowell, I'm a writer and I teach landscape history and horticulture at the New York Botanical Garden.
[1:37] Jane Perrone
Gardening Can Be Murder, great title for this spooky week of Halloween. Tell me about where this all began.
Marta McDowell
So I think that the light bulb turned on with a little paperback book I picked up in I'm going to say late 1990s. It was called 'Mulch' and it was by a garden journalist named Ann Ripley. I don't think Ann's with us anymore but she was from Colorado and her protagonist was a garden writer, not surprisingly, and it was a horticultural mystery. It takes place in Washington, D.C. It had a lot of different components. And it was then I thought, oh, wait a minute, this might be a topic I could write about. And I did write an article for a wonderful little garden journal called Hortus.David Wheeler, the editor, is very kind to me and lets me try out lots of different kind of zany ideas. And so that came out in 2002. And then this book actually grew out of that little global pandemic we had. So, you know, I needed something to work on. That just, it spoke to me because I could write it without access to research libraries, which were hard to get to.
[3:05] Jane Perrone
Yeah, I sympathize as somebody who was trying to write the book at the same time. Yeah, it was tough. And the book gives us a lot of insight into these works, which draw on plants, gardens, people who love plants, tools that are involved in gardening and their role in dastardly goings on. Why do you think that this genre is so kind of soaked in sap, as it were?
Marta McDowell
Well, gardening is something of a mystery. Anyone who grows plants knows that you're always solving a puzzle. You know, why does this propagate? Why is it doing well and this one isn't? You know, why did that plant die? Did I kill it? Was I the murderer? You know, you're always trying to like piece it together. And also it has that nice kind of life and death contrast. You know, we have that idea of a garden being Edenic and yet it is a place where lots of bodies get hidden. You know, walk through the crime fiction section of your local bookstore, and invariably you will see, a cover that has an illustration of, you know, a shovel. And you know, and a hole, and you know, they're putting a body in there. And plus, lots of things in the garden can kill you.
[4:33] Jane Perrone
Exactly. I mean, I'm just wondering now, as you're speaking about compost heaps and whether there must be a novel somewhere where somebody's ended up in a compost heap, because whenever I'm turning my compost heap, I'm always thinking about death. I mean, that sounds really kind, of negative, but actually, it's a wonderful insight into the cycle of life and death that we are all, you know, whether we like it or not a part of. I don't know if there's been any novels where somebody sort of secreted a body inside a compost heap, but yeah.
[5:03] Marta McDowell
Oh, absolutely. Not only 'Mulch', that very first one that I, it was, well, in the States we have this strange suburban phenomenon that people rake their leaves and many people put them in big brown paper bags and then the town comes and picks them up for for the municipal compost, or compost as I say. And that figures into mulch. So in that novel, let's just say you find body parts, right? And there's another one called 'Compost Mortem', good title, which a compost area does figure in. So absolutely, you know, people have been very creative about how they use different aspects of horticulture.
Jane Perrone
Obviously this is a podcast about houseplants. We're taking some liberties here, as I am allowed to do after six and a bit years of podcasting. Are there any indoor plants that get dragged into a murder plot? What indoor plants might we be thinking about when we're thinking about these kinds of crimes?
Marta McDowell
So definitely cacti have made appearances in murder mysteries. Maybe it's because of their, you know, their strange forms, cacti and succulents, you know, like the one behind my shoulder here have their own kind of spooky silhouettes. But Dorothy L. Sayers, who, you know, is one of the great greats of that classic detective novel. 'Busman's Honeymoon', I strongly suggest you read that for the cactus-obsessed vicar and houseplants, make several appearances. The victim had been a great collector of various cacti and succulents. So that one works really well. And then orchids appear quite often. So if there are orchid enthusiasts, on as your listeners. You have lots to choose from.
Jane Perrone
Why do you think orchids are so prevalent as a backdrop for these kind of things?
Marta McDowell
It's a good question. I think it's their unusual form is part of it. It's something that... just their morphology has this kind of attractiveness, not just to their pollinators, but also to people. There was great craze for orchids when they first started being collected. Even H.G. Wells wrote a mystery of sorts. You could say, is it a mystery or is it sci-fi, but it's called 'Flowering of the Strange Orchid'. So, you know, that's also a really, you know, really attractive one to me. And then lots of people have used orchids in various ways.
Jane Perrone
That brings us neatly on to Rex Stout, the author who created the character Nero Wolfe. Tell us a little bit about this character and his orchid obsession, because I think this is one that is a good starting point, again, for somebody who is into houseplants and might like to dip their toe into this kind of story.
Marta McDowell
So Nero Wolfe, the protagonist, he is eccentric. He's also corpulent, he's reclusive. He lives in a brownstone in New York City. And so I'm going to say they're set - I think they're post-World War II, so I'm going to say 50s. Rex Stout wrote scads of them. He wrote something like 40 novels and probably as many short stories. Wolfe becomes absolutely smitten with the orchid family. He was given a Vanda, a Vanda orchid, very fragrant Vanda suavis, and he kills it, and then he takes it up as a challenge and buys 10 more orchids, builds a greenhouse in his fifth floor penthouse, and eventually has a collection of 10,000 orchids.
[9:37] Jane Perrone
Wow.
Marta McDowell
So he has to charge enormous fees because he's got these very expensive hobbies not just orchids, but he's a gastronome, so he has a chef, so there's lots of food in these mysteries. You know, he hires, I think, I can't remember, Theodor Horstmann is Swiss, I think, you know, orchid manager who lives in the house. He, of course, has a sidekick because Nero Wolf doesn't go out. So he has Archie Goodwin. You know, the novels are maybe a bit dated, you know, they certainly do not have a feminist twist, do not expect that. But they're still a very fun read.
Jane Perrone
I mean, this guy sounds like an absolute dude. I love the fact that he doesn't go out, but, he's got this assistant who presumably goes out and does his, you know, legwork for him. And he's got the orchid guy. I mean, he's got 10,000 orchids. I'm sure lots of listeners can relate to this scenario of getting one orchid or being given an orchid and then ending, up just with this massive obsession. Oh, that's fascinating. I mean, I think we probably all wish to be in a New York brownstone with thousands of orchids and lots of assistants providing us with delicious food and tending our plants, it sounds perfect!
[10:53]Marta McDowell
He gave a real address on West 35th Street. So if you walk down West 35th Street in Midtown Manhattan and look at each brownstone carefully, you will find one with a plaque that says Nero Wolfe lived here.
Jane Perrone
Oh, that's great. That's fantastic. And was he good at solving crime? Did he actually succeed in unraveling these mysteries?
[11:18] Marta McDowell
Absolutely, absolutely. but do not expect to get an orchid as a gift. He does not sell them, doesn't give them away. Although there is one story where he agrees to solve a murder in exchange for a couple of rare orchids. As you would, I mean, as you would, of course you would. Yeah, somebody offers you rare orchids to solve a crime, you're going to be in, you're going to be doing that. So I would not only like to have, like to be Nero Wolfe, I'd like to be Rex Stout, because he was incredibly prolific. And said, you know, I, it usually takes me six weeks to write a book, but I try to shave a little off that. Right, you go, really? Come on. It doesn't take me like three years to write a book.
Jane Perrone
Were they very popular when they came out? Were they a real hit? Were they bestsellers?
Marta McDowell
He was popular and there have been, you know, various TV series over time, you know, with Nero Wolfes and Archies played by various people. My favourite was when I came across the fact that William Shatner, who I remember as Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise, once played Archie Goodwin.
Jane Perrone
I've got to dig that out. I'm a bit of a Trekkie. I would love to see that. That sounds That's great. Well, I'm definitely going to have to check out these Rex Stout books because I say for some reason I'd not come across them before, but I love everything about the sound of them. So thank you for alerting me to those.
[12:57] Music.
[13:06] Jane Perrone
More from Marta shortly but let me take a moment to say thank you to two new members of my Patreon clan - Bas and Jonathan, who have both become Superfans this week so exclusive personalised cards are wending their way to their addresses and they'll also be getting a free copy of my new audiobook of Legends of the Leaf which is out any day now. Any day. As soon as I've got got the details of that I will put it on the podcast and on all my usual social media channels. Very exciting. And if you want to find out more about becoming a patron, you can do that by visiting the show notes at janeperrone.com where you'll also find links to a bonus episode with Marta where we go into more detail about Gardening is Murder, her book, including the fabulous illustrations. And if you're looking for a Christmas present for friends, family or yourself, do check out Houseplant Gardener in a Box, my new product. It's out now. Again, more details at janeperrone.com. This set of 60 houseplant cards, all beautifully illustrated, is the perfect thing to dip in and out of over the festive season.
[14:25] Jane Perrone
And now time to get back to my chat with Marta McDowell and it's time to get on to a detective who shares my name. Miss Marple is a brilliant sleuth and it's partly due to the fact that she also loves gardening and she uses this to help her solve crimes too. Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Marta McDowell
Also, I've always had a soft spot for Miss Marple. She's just a very, I don't know, very appealing character. She is her own woman. You know, Christie's, I think her first Miss Marple short story was the Tuesday Night Club, which I find very interesting because there's a new series that's very popular that starts out with a title, The Thursday Murder Club.
Jane Perrone
Yes, I've just been reading the most recent book of that. I just literally finished it this morning.
[15:26] Marta McDowell
I have been mainlining them.
Jane Perrone
They're so good, aren't they? They're so good. There's not enough plants in them, but they are absolutely brilliant. And that's another entry point for anyone wanting to get into those books. But yeah, anyway, so there we are. So do you think that's a reference? Do you Do you think he's making a reference there?
Marta McDowell
You know, it struck me immediately. I thought, wait a minute, isn't that an Agatha Christie title? And I went back and I said, no, no, it was the Tuesday night club, but I think it has to be a nod. And you know, if Richard Osman is listening, please make the next one something horticultural.
Jane Perrone
That one's set in a retirement village. There have to be gardeners there, right? I mean, I suppose, I don't know if you've read the most recent one. I shouldn't give too much away. Have you read the most recent one?
Marta McDowell
No no, I'm holding it.
Jane Perrone
I'm not going to, no spoilers. There is a very slight, very slight horticultural angle but it's it's not center stage but it is in there if anyone's read the book they'll know what I'm talking about uh it does involve radishes - I'll say no more but we definitely need a more of a gardening element to the next one I think.
[16:33] Marta McDowell
Absolutely.
Jane Perrone
Sorry that was a tangent. Miss Marple, yeah.
Marta McDowell
The first Miss Marple came out in 1927. The last one came out in the 1970s. So, first of all, she had legs, right? She lasted. And Christy, I think, also enjoyed writing her character. I think she really enjoyed writing Hercule Poirot. It really comes across. Miss Marple I think is that sort of quintessential village mystery, right? St. Mary Mead is this charming village. Ms. Marple's home has this lovely cottage garden around it. She does not grow vegetables. She is a flower gardener, and she makes that quite clear. But I remember Agatha Christie saying, you know, Ms. Marple came out, she was 65 or 70. It's no wonder that I, you know, I now really like Ms. Marple and she said I should have started her as a schoolgirl because there's no way she'd still be alive writing for you know four decades of Ms. Marple. And, you know, so many actors have played Miss Marple. She tends to have a hat. She's dressed, you know, very comfortably, but very appropriately. And little bits come out all through the, you know, the Miss Marple chronicles about how she learned about gardening. You know, her governor taught her the language of her flowers. And she clearly knew botanical names because in one of the novels, she identifies this particular species of polygonum. And she loves to garden and bird watch because she can be outside and keep an eye on what's going on in the village.
Jane Perrone
Absolutely. That's a really key point, isn't it? That she's out in the garden, her eyes are open. People stop and talk to you when you're gardening in view of the road. I know this because, you know, when I'm out in my front garden, people do stop and, you know, I that's when I get questions. I have verbascums planted in my front garden. And if I'm out there doing something, my front garden is nothing to write home about, but it does have some lovely verbascums, which my husband hates because they, he has to park his car next to them and they're, they're, they're cultivar called snowmaiden and you get covered in the fluff from them. But I always think actually, like if anyone committed a crime coming, like trying to commit crime around my house, you'd be able to identify them because they'd be covered in verbascum fluff, anyway. But yeah, you're right, you do get to talk to people, you spot things, you see people going by. What a brilliant thing. Does she have a gardener though? Does she employ somebody as well?
[19:24] Marta McDowell
Only later on. So by the time you get to the later novels, she, you know, Christie does age her. And so she does have a story where she kind of faces ageing and she has to bring in Mr. Laycock, who never does things the way she would want. I also, I really get this because I will bring people in to help me because unfortunately, my garden, I spend too much time gardening at my keyboard. So then my garden doesn't get the attention it deserves. And so I have to get help. And you know, it's never the way you want it exactly. But you have to learn to let go. And even Ms. Marple, right? She has to learn to let go. And, you know, she has gardening friends. I'm sure, you know, all your listeners do, right? You have people that you can chat about the latest catalogs and what's growing well. And, you know, for her, it's Dolly Bantry who lives in the big house in town.
[20:35] Jane Perrone
That's a really good point. And that's partly what gardening is about, isn't it? And I was wondering whether the other big fixture of the horticultural year in ye olde England, as we might say, is the annual show. Does that ever feature in any stories? I'm trying to remember if there's any reference to, you know, I don't know, some dastardly crime being committed among the giant vegetables and the sweet pea display or anything like that, because that seems to me to be a plot waiting to happen where you could have, you know, something happening behind the scenes, some dastardly crime.
Marta McDowell
There is one, it's by Catherine Aird, if I'm pronouncing her name correctly. And I'm just trying to come up, Passing Strange, I think is the name of it. And that does have the, you know, the fete, right? And they have all the tents and there is a show and, you know, the murder actually is in one of the tents. So that one is a lot of fun.
Jane Perrone
Going back to Miss Marple, the joy of those books also is, I think, the archetype of the English cottage garden that we can imagine Miss Marple's garden when she's and that we imagine it just being the absolutely perfect cottage English cottage garden which I know for well for English listeners but also American listeners is something that is very, you know is is a very well thought of and loved construction and it is a construction obviously Do we think she was a good gardener? I mean, I always think of myself as like you, I don't have enough time, my garden's always in a mess, but do you think her garden actually looked really good? Did she get compliments?
Marta McDowell
Oh, I think so. Because when she went to other gardens, she was very particular. She's walking through, I'm sure you've had this feeling, where she sees some bindweed And it's everything she can do to prevent herself from trying, stooping down and untangling, and trying to evict the bindweed. I just assume that because she did seem to do everything well, right down to the damson gin, that's what I want to be invited for.
Jane Perrone
Yes, that's a really good point, damson gin. A good damson tree I would say is, I mean I don't, unfortunately I lost my plum tree a few years ago and I now only have a tiny one. I don't have a damson tree but yeah, if you're going to have a tree, plant a tree, a good damson tree for that damson gin. Amazing absolutely amazing I have made some quince gin this autumn so i'm going to see how that turns out I am obviously aiming to become miss marple the older I get I'm just going to be channeling this the whole way along.
Marta Mcdowell You bet! You know she does all sorts of, you know, she'll get the primula veris and and brew them into some I think it was wine - cowslip wine so she has this, you know, interest in alcoholic beverages as well.
[23:57] Jane Perrone
I actually have a whole little thing going on, which I call better baking through alcohol, which is basically using up all those weird bottles of alcohol that you bring back from foreign holidays, in various cakes and things. And it's really interesting how you can flavor banana bread in a million different ways with those little liqueur bottles. Miss Marple, I think any of those Miss Marple novels are a wonderful, cozy place to go in the winter or when you're feeling a bit down on the outside world, as it often is, is becoming harsh. That wonderful world of St. Mary Mead is a wonderful place to go. But have you got other recommendations for books or series or authors where people might want to start with this kind of genre with a horticultural element?
Marta McDowell
So if you want a series that has horticulture, I would look at Susan Wittig Albert has two different series. She's a prolific writer and in a strange way, I've sort of, I've kind of followed her.Because she wrote a mystery series with Beatrix Potter and then I wrote a book Beatrix Potter's Gardening Life and she wrote a book about Laura Ingalls Wilder and her daughter, you know, a novel and then I wrote a nonfiction about Laura anyway. But she has two series. One is starring an herbalist named China Bayles. That is a contemporary series, so set in the undefined present and in the Texas Hill Country, which is a beautiful part of Texas. And then she's got another series that's set in the early 1930s in Alabama, and it's about a garden club. So it's the Darlings, right? So it's Darling, Alabama. So it's the Darling Garden Club. And they are really well-researched, They're well-crafted and they all have plant and gardening themes. So they're both really fun.
[26:08] Jane Perrone
Fantastic. Well, I shall put links to those in the show notes for anyone who wants to follow up on that. I like the sound of both of those. And I wonder whether there's room though for somebody to sort of take on the sort of pandemic era, houseplant surge and somehow turn that into a new character who's really into aroids or has an IKEA greenhouse cabinet full of Hoyas or something and make this into kind of the 2020s equivalent of Nero Wolfe. I'm not going to be doing that, but that's an idea I'm going to throw out there for somebody to take up.
Marta McDowell
Yes, or carnivorous plants would be another. There have been stories that include carnivorous plants, but they haven't really been the driver. You know it's one great fun about working on this project was also finding unusual authors who might be out of print so there was one I think I have it right here oh this is in reprint now it's an Irish author named Sheila Pym - Sheila Pym was a garden writer. She wrote a biography of Augustine Henry, who was a great plant collector. But this one was called 'Common or Garden Crime'. And it's set in an Irish village during the Second World War. So that was really fun. And another one that I came across is Reginald Hill. And he wrote, I know roses, you know, sort of off the top of houseplants, but he wrote a brilliant book called 'Deadheads'. Great title. Every chapter has a chapter heading of a different variety of sose, and the chapter has something to do with that, and the whole motive setting, and I guess basically all of the murder weapons are all drawn from the Rose Garden.
Jane Perrone
That's brilliant. Those are going straight onto my reading list. I love the sound of all of those. And yeah, that's, I love that idea of 'Deadheads'. What a great title. What a great title. I mean, there are so many lethal tools in the average greenhouse or shed. I know I've got some pretty lethal ones and it's now getting to that stage where my son wants to help me in the garden and he'll come out with some massive pruning saw and say, can I use this? And you're kind of like, okay, under supervision. But yeah, that's, I can imagine that there's fruitful ground there for anyone who wants to get into this genre and indeed I'd love to know that somebody's writing new stuff in this area. I'm sure there's there's it's so popular isn't it. I must hear back from you when you've read the new Thursday Murder Club book, what you thought of it, The Last Devil to Die. As I say I've just finished it as an audiobook and as I say there's a little bit in there for the gardeners so enjoy that. But thank you so much for joining me Marta, it's been an absolute pleasure and yeah my reading list for the next few months is jam-packed now, so thank you very much.
Marta McDowell
And I will say, I have put the whole reading list, which is included in the book, I've also put it on my website, which is just my name, and I'm growing it. So if people have suggestions, please send them along, because what a fun resource.
Jane Perrone
I'll put a link in the show notes for that. That's excellent. Thank you so much.
[29:42] Music.
[29:54] Jane Perrone
That's all for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed this little diversion and, I hope that looking after your houseplants isn't murder this week. Bye!
[30:03] Music.
[30:25] The music you heard in this episode was Roll, Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops, The Road We Used To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku, and Plantation by Jason Shaw. All tracks are licensed under creative commons. Visit the show notes for details.
[30:40] Music.
I talk to author Marta McDowell about her new book Gardening Can Be Murder, which explores plants and gardens as the inspiration for writers of crime fiction.
Marta’s book Gardening Can Be Murder is published by Timber Press. You can read Marta’s full list of horticultural crime fiction here.
Patreon subscribers at the Ledge End and Superfan level can watch a bonus video with Marta in An Extra Leaf 120.
This week’s guest
Garden writer Marta McDowell lives in New Jersey in the US and is the author of several books including Beatrix Potter's Gardening Life and All The Presidents’ Gardens. She teaches landscape history and horticulture at the New York Botanical Garden, where she studied landscape design. Her particular interest is in authors and their gardens, the connection between the pen and the trowel.
The books mentioned in our chat are…
The Nero Wofle series by Rex Stout - you can watch William Shatner as Archie Goodwin here.
Listen to Legends of the Leaf!
Legends of the Leaf is my book revealing the backstories of 25 iconic houseplants, including the swiss cheese plant, the Boston fern and the snake plant. The print and ebook editions came out in April 2023, buty the audiobook version is hot off the presses (or should that be speakers?).
The audiobook will be coming to Audible in the next few days and is currently available on Spotify, Kobo, Chirp, NOOK Audiobooks and Google Play. Patrons on my Superfan tier will be getting a free copy of the audiobook, too.
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku and Plantation by Jason Shaw.