Episode 227: houseplants and sustainability part four - Harriets Plants
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Transcript
Jane Perrone 00:03
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Jane Perrone 01:17
It's Friday, and that means just one thing. It's On The Ledge podcast with your host Jane Perrone. And in this week's show, I visit the wonderful Harriet Thompson of Harriet's Plants, the UK houseplant nursery, to talk all things sustainability. And the big news this week is that I am doing a live podcast recording at the RHS Hampton Court Palace Garden Festival, flowers after hours event, which is taking place on Friday, the eighth of July, the evening there have, that's the after hours bit, you can get into the Garden Festival from four o'clock flowers after hours starts at 730. And I'm going to be onstage with a special guest at nine o'clock. I can't yet tell you who it is. But I can tell you, it's going to be fun. And more good news, I'm running a prize drawer for a pair of tickets to this event. So you can come and meet me in person. This is not going to be your normal Garden Festival event. You get to run the show grounds at Hampton Court Palace. There's lots of other expert talks and workshops, there's a silent disco even so it's going to be a fun evening. I hope you can join me whether you get the prize draw tickets or not. I'm running that prize draw on my Instagram account. And I'll pop a link in the show notes to that or you can just head on over to @j.l.perrone to find that - you have till the end of the day on Friday, June the 24th 2022 to enter. So if you're in travelling distance of Hampton Court in the UK, and you're free on the evening of Friday, the eighth of July, well, you better enter!
Jane Perrone 03:22
Thank you to Luke in the UK and Livrau in the US for leaving a delightfully pleasant and supportive reviews for the show. And thanks to Katie, Sue, Brandon and Hannah who've all become Ledge Ends in the last couple of weeks, unlocking access to extra episodes, the archive of the first 50 episodes of the show, and ad free versions too. If you want to find out more about becoming a Patreon subscriber, check out the show notes. All the info is there.
Jane Perrone 04:02
If you've been listening to On The Ledge for a while, you'll know that I'm passionate about trying to encourage us all to become more sustainable growers and collectors. And in past episodes, I've covered issues like peat and plastic and how we can get rid of them from the industry. So I was delighted to be able to head to Litchfield in Staffordshire to the glasshouses of Harriet's Plants, a small scale grower of houseplants here in the UK. It was an absolute delight to chat to Harriet about some of these gnarly issues and to get a guided tour of her growing plants. So join me now in the Harriet's Plants greenhouse for a good old chinwag about plants.
Jane Perrone 04:59
Harriet, we're here. I'm here. I've made it to your greenhouse. We've had some coffee. We've got the pre interview chat out the way. This has been a long planned visit to your lovely nursery.
Harriet Thompson 05:15
Was it pre COVID?
Jane Perrone 05:16
I don't even know I can't even... yeah, it's been a while anyway. So I'm very glad to be here. And what I'm excited about talking to you about is how you came about to create this nursery, because a lot of the ideals that I can see in your business are things that I've always tried to promote on the podcast. So sustainability, buying from people who know what they're doing.
Harriet Thompson 05:41
Yeah. Buying from growers is so important. So I, I started oh, gosh, I am going to have to think of dates now - I started this in 2018. I was studying at the Eden Project in Cornwall. And I was already heavily into houseplants anyway, because I'd lived in Australia, I was, you know, buying them there and having them in my home and realised what they were doing for me. And then when I started studying, when I came back to England, I kind of just got into buying and at that time, I was buying them from Holland. And then something triggered - bearing in mind I come from quite a sustainable sustainability background. I just saw everything that I didn't want to be a part of almost. Lots of things are great about buying from Holland and that kind of thing. But I just saw lots of plastic lots of peat and I, because of Eden very much got into growing. I was always really annoyed with my dad because he wasn't a farmer. I always wanted to grow as a young girl. And yeah, I just I got into growing I bought myself one of those tiny little polytunnels- well, really a plastic greenhouse to be honest with you - started growing, propagating from everything that I bought in. And then slowly but surely, I just stopped buying in and was then propagating from the stuff that I had grown. And then Eden Project showed me how to grow in a different in a different way.
Harriet Thompson 07:26
And then the opportunity came for us to move back to where I'm from, which is Staffordshire, from Cornwall, which I miss so much. And then I just rented a greenhouse and it kind of started on a very small - I kind of took over half the half the greenhouse and then did the whole greenhouse, I then doubled the greenhouse. And it's just gone from there. And I love growing. I think because I'm trying to do it in a more sustainable way. It just aligns better with me, and then with the business as well. So yeah.
Jane Perrone 08:06
Well, the just to explain for anyone who doesn't know what the Eden Project is - it's fine, just some people might not have heard of it. It's just a well just it - it's a huge site in Cornwall, but it's got these big, I guess most iconic for those big glass biomes where you can go and see lots of plants from around the world growing and lots of horticulturists train there, don't they?
Harriet Thompson 08:29
Totaly - lots of horticulturists do apprenticeships, volunteer there. They know what they are talking about. They're now doing degrees there. I think they've only been doing them... I was the second year to do the degree there. A nd they're great. Yeah. Ever. If you're ever down in Cornwall, you should absolutely go there.
Jane Perrone 08:51
I've been a couple of times, not for the last few years. I remember going in the very, very early days. And being like, it's not quite there yet, but this is going to be amazing. It's changed a lot since the beginning. Especially that tropical biome is amazing.
Harriet Thompson 09:07
You walk in, and the heat hits you.
Jane Perrone 09:08
Yes - maybe we'll have to do a trip down to the Eden Project from podcast!
Harriet Thompson 09:11
Absolutely!
Jane Perrone 09:11
Anyway, back to you! As I said, I love the ideals that you've really embedded in the heart of your business here. Let's talk about peat because this is an issue that's close to my heart as well. A few years ago, so I started the podcast in 2017. And I think then the issue of peat in houseplants was kind of for me like the elephant in the room but nobody was talking about.
Harriet Thompson 09:36
Aas it almost a little bit unknown?
Jane Perrone 09:37
It was unknown I think I don't think people really thought at all about peat in houseplant substrates. I think in the UK we're much more educated now but let's just run past for those who might not be up to speed on this. Why should we not be using peat in houseplants?
Harriet Thompson 09:58
It's such a great substance, peat is - in its natural environment, it's a carbon store. It's great for wildlife, it is great for flood risks, it holds on to all this water. And when we extract it, it then dries up and therefore doesn't hold on to the water anymore. When we extract it, it releases a lot of carbon into the atmosphere. And it's just an all around. It's a great substance in its natural environment, when we extract it, it then turns into an environmental nightmare, basically. So that's why I choose not to use it in my personal life and also in the nursery. Because habitats are lost and it's just not something that I wholeheartedly agree with at all so ...
Jane Perrone 10:55
And I think we've realised in the last few years that you don't need peat.
Harriet Thompson 10:59
We don't need it, we don't need it at all.
Jane Perrone 11:00
What do you use as your main substrate? Is it a deep secret?
Harriet Thompson 11:05
It's not a deep secret, I definitely mix my own composts within the nursery. So it depends on what plant I'm growing as to what I will mix into things. It's lots of wood chip, broken down wood chip. There's no green waste in my compost at the moment, but I would like to start making my own compost. But that is a different story. Coir, which I then soak in a natural organic feed, which is made in the UK. So I don't have any base fertilisers in my compost at the moment. And then I feed throughout the greenhouse. So yeah, so it's predominantly wood chip and coir. But I'm working all the time to change my compost mix and make them as environmentally as possible - as environmentally friendly as possible. Because I know there's a big issue with coir at the moment, and I also don't want to be a part of that, if it's not this small little industry that we are told it kind of is, but it really is, but coir isquite a big industry as well, isn't it?
Jane Perrone 12:12
I guess as we move away from peat, we are going to have to think about you know, well, what's the alternative if you've got all these people switching from peat, we need to make sure that the things we're using instead...
Harriet Thompson 12:22
Totally and I think if we do anything en masse , there is always a detrimental effect for the planet anyway, at the moment for me it's what's better, and coir is better for me at present, but that will change Same with the coir pots in my nursery, that will also - so I grow 100% plastic free - virgin plastic free - and then I recycle from local greenhouses. That will change at some stage because coir pots will turn into another issue so we're just always learning, aren't we?
Jane Perrone 12:57
Yeah, exactly and I think you know, that's the thing - people often get really bogged down in worrying about these things. And so they do nothing rather than trying to do the best that they can at that time and keep learning.
Harriet Thompson 13:11
Totally!
Jane Perrone 13:12
And reflecting and then changing practice as we understand more which is - it can be hard work but we need to do that work.
Harriet Thompson 13:20
I think definitely - it really is hard work but I think if we're all willing to make small changes it changes the way bigger growers can grow as well because you know we've been talking already prior to this interview about supply and demand. You know if we put our foot down and say we don't want peat grown plants anymore - houseplants or regular or outdoor plants - it creates that change for those growers to be able to follow suit almost. So yeah...
Jane Perrone 13:53
And has the pandemic had a huge boost - given a huge boost to your business in terms of people stepping over themselves to buy your plants?
Harriet Thompson 14:03
Yes and no - I kind of started the year before so I was never at the scale that - I mean I'm not a huge nursery at all, like I was never at a scale where I - when you first start a business you know you start it you start selling you never really make any money. And then for the first couple of years anyway so the second year was the lockdown year. And yes, sales increased but because everything has to go back into the business for me to be able to grow more plants for more shops because there's so many shops now around the UK that are wanting to make those changes and are wanting to buy peat free because people want peat free now. So they're seeing their customer demand change. So they then want to shop with peat free and also UK grown growers sorry UK growers. So yeah, yeah, there was totally an increase in sales, so to speak, but it's kind of all gone back into me growing more and more so that I can just be able to supply more and more shops really so and get more free plants out there to people.
Jane Perrone 15:13
Yeah, exactly. This is good news. And it's great to see that businesses like yours are starting up because we have relied in the UK on the Dutch producers for a long time.
Harriet Thompson 15:26
Which grow, they grow so well.
Jane Perrone 15:28
They're brilliant plants. But actually, let's support some UK growers. I'm hoping - do you know of more people doing what you're doing on this scale in the UK with houseplants?
Harriet Thompson 15:38
So I've been in contact with National Trust, for example, I know that they had a grower at some stage. But they have got back in contact with me recently. So I'm not ...
Jane Perrone 15:38
You've got your head down working...
Harriet Thompson 15:48
I'm like, I've just got to plant these seeds!
Jane Perrone 15:56
I really hope that thereare more people taking it up. But that said, I can understand that this is - I mean, I think people probably visualise you wafting around your greenhouse like, you know, enjoying your plants. And actually, it's like, no, you're dealing with packaging issues and courier issues and everything.
Harriet Thompson 16:16
Yeah.
Jane Perrone 16:16
You are a woman of all tasks.
Harriet Thompson 16:19
Yeah, totally. One day, I'll be doing the gutters, the other day, you know, nothing's automated in this greenhouse. So at the moment, I would love it to be, but these things take time, you know, so I water, I feed, I do the pest control, I sweep the floor, I do the gutters, you know, I pack the boxes, I write the little gift notes. You know, it's all all me. So it's quite difficult sometimes to keep on top of that, but yeah, well, that's running a business, and I love it.
Jane Perrone 16:50
What kinds of things are you are you selling? What's your favourite, sort of, uh, what's the things that people are buying in bulk?
Harriet Thompson 16:57
So I've grown lots and lots of Oxalis this year. I love them. Because you know, they are just stunning plants. Lots of them can be grown indoors and outdoors, so they're very versatile. So they've been great, great sellers, the Caladiums also are just kicking in now. So I'm taking some to Kew this afternoon. So they're starting to go but they just take a little bit of time, Caladiums are quite difficult to grow. So you kind of have to have like a base heat under them. And, you know, in at the moment, nothing is heated in this greenhouse, bar the Caladium beds. So yeah, lots of aroids. So Monstera sell super, super well, that original Swiss cheese plant, which everybody - itis a staple plant, I feel like everybody should have one in their home. And actually Chlorophytums, the spider plants, this year. I don't know whether it's because they're great for air quality. But they've come back a little bit I think - a couple of years ago, hardly sold any.
Jane Perrone 18:05
That's interesting. That's really interesting.
18:07 Original houseplants for me - if I could grow just original houseplants like the cheese plants, the spider plants, even Hoyas. If I could grow...
Jane Perrone 18:17
Let's get me started on the Hoyas!
Harriet Thompson 18:19 Oh yeah!
Jane Perrone 18:22
Well, I mean, I think I think there's certain qualities that those houseplants have, that are just so valuable, and one of them is propagation. And I'm sure that you would say to listeners, you know, get into propagation.
Harriet Thompson 18:36
Absolutely. The most environmentally friendly way to grow for a consumer is to propagate from the plants that either your friends have, or you have. It's free, it's cheap, it's an education. It's just phenomenal. And it's doing it without having to then purchase - I mean, saying that I am a houseplant shop, but it's doing it without having to purchase another plant.
Jane Perrone 19:09
This is an interesting tension for you, isn't it? Because I think your message is kind of like 'don't buy too much'! At the same time, you're producing plants. But I totally understand that message and it's one that I absolutely love. And I don't think it's going to stop people buying from you quite frankly.
Harriet Thompson 19:27
No, but I ... overconsumption for me is a huge issue across the board of any topics we have in society. I am an underconsumer, as a person as an individual, but I obviously sell as part of my business. But I feel like if we can hone in on the plants that we already have, we can propagate and gift to friends. We can also - don't get me wrong - we can buy houseplants, definitely. And we should, because they're great for us. But we should just focus in on what we have and look after them well, rather than this throwaway issue where you know, something isn't doing too well, rather than try and either fix the problem or try and propagate a bit from the plant that is not doing very well and make a new plant and then maybe get rid of the old or not very well plant. It's just, yeah, it's an issue.
Jane Perrone 20:26
It is an issue. And I get so annoyed by the whole, "you can't have too many plants..."
Harriet Thompson 20:26
You can have too many plants.
Jane Perrone 20:33
You can totally have too many plants! I mean, probably both of us in different ways are butting up against that issue on a daily basis.
Harriet Thompson 20:42
Totally. My house, for example, I probably have five cacti and three plants, three leafy plants. And that's all I have. I mean, I grow them. So I have the beauty of growing them in and around me all the time. So maybe that's where I get my kick from growing plants. But you know, I don't I don't have the space firstly, and like, I need my kitchen work surfaces.
Jane Perrone 21:11
You hear people who ... your whole kitchen is covered in plants. I don't know how that like that. It gets to a point where sometimes I think it can be a little bit dysfunctional...
Harriet Thompson 21:22
Definitely.
Jane Perrone 21:23
And I mean, no shade on those people. But you know, I've been there, we've all been there of that thing of like, oh, my gosh, I've walked into the supermarket and there's this plant that I think I must have it, it must be mine!
Harriet Thompson 21:33
Absolutely, because they look so great. And unfortunately, the majority of the plants then are having a detrimental effect on the environment when they're grown because of the use of peat. So for me, I would rather have fewer peat free plants, and look after them really well then just go into somewhere and buy a plant because it looks great, but then potentially take it home and just not realise how things are grown. Do you know what I mean?
Jane Perrone 22:11
it's interesting with Oxalis is and the Caladiums. Both of those, I think are great plants, because you can kind of they can kind of accept the fact that you're not going to be necessarily growing them all the time. So if your Oxalis goes really badly wrong. You've still you've still got those rhizomes it all dies, or how often does just go dormant.
Harriet Thompson 22:36
If anyone's got an Oxalis and and it dies back, don't throw it away.
Jane Perrone 22:41
Same same. And quite often I just deliberately let my die because I'm like, I can't cope with this at the minute. And I know it's going to come back ...
Harriet Thompson 22:48
And that's fine. Yeah, absolutely.
Jane Perrone 22:50
I love those kinds of plants. And I think they're so underrated.
Harriet Thompson 22:53
So that's kind of what I like to specialise in is like easy care, or they're easy care for me. But that just I want to like educate people on these plants so that people can hold on to them for as long as possible rather than being part of the throw away, just throw your plants away. If they're not doing too well...
Jane Perrone 23:14
Hoyas again, there are some really tricky Hoyas, but a lot of the popular words are just so yeah. And I guess once you've got one, like once you've got a Hoya carnosa you're probably gonna have it for the next few decades. It's gonna be with you until you are no longer here - and it will prpbably outlive you.
Harriet Thompson 23:32
And you can pass them on.
Jane Perrone 23:33
You can pass them on, and people do! I know people who've got who is like, Oh, this was grandma's Hoya. I love that. But I think also, you know, that's another aspect of the not going crazy buying because particularly I see this with Hoya enthusiasts and I again, no shade because I'm guilty of this too. You buy that little two leaf cutting and you buy 12 more two leaf cuttings and you don't realise that they're all going to turn into beasts. Yeah, absolutely. Havey ou got room for like, fifty beasts?
Harriet Thompson 24:06
All of a sudden you're like someone take this plant away from me. I've done that before.
Jane Perrone 24:10
Exactly, exactly. I mean, this is the thing that we're navigating as human beings and you know, as people involved in the house plan world and it's never straightforward, but I think it's good to hear this counterbalance to the kind of dare I say it kind of consumer Ultra capitalist message of keep keep buying, keep buying, keep buying more, because you need that hit.
Harriet Thompson 24:32
And yeah, we don't need it. What we need to be doing is buying better. And that 'buying better' little phrase is so important to me. If we can buy two peat free plants rather than 10 peat grown plants I've done my job almost now and you know, so yeah, it's just changing people's narratives and messages and like I said, I don't know whether there's any other people Free growers of houseplants currently within the UK there will be at some stage. But we can all be doing something to be beneficial, more beneficial to the environment than we are doing now. And I'm included in that, you know.
Jane Perrone 25:16
Agreed. Well, should we go and have a wander? So this is what we're here for. I'm gonna grab these recorders and let's go and look, I mean, I'm looking at all your lovely coir pots here. Does that when you're using those does that affect your cultural requirements in terms of how you're watering the plant? Presumably they're much more porous
Harriet Thompson 25:40
Yes, because they're porous I do have to water slightly differently. But that's all water management for me. And that's the same with, I know a lot of people that have switched from peat to peat-free have said, you know, peak free doesn't hold on to the moisture as much as peak grind, which you won't because, you know, peat grown plants, that's peat sorry, that's the whole purpose of peat is to hold on to moisture. So you just have to manage your watering different differently. And once you've done it, that then becomes the norm of the way that you water. So I do a lot of bottom watering not in here but for my personal plan. So yeah, so the coir pot - Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent.
Jane Perrone 26:27
Tangent away, tangent away!
Harriet Thompson 26:30
So yeah, the coir pots are porous. So I just water, again, either water from below so that the plant can soak it all up from beneath so you can kind of water into your cache pot, outer pot, let them soak for 30-45 minutes and then just take them out and drain away the old water. Which is great. It's easy. You just Yeah, it's super easy to do then. But yeah, it is a bit different. But then, you know, plastic pots have holes in the bottom so..
Jane Perrone 27:03
Lovely Oxalis. Have you ever eaten this?
Harriet Thompson 27:08
Should we try it now?
Jane Perrone 27:09
Let's do it. I'm gonna find it tastes of lemon sherbert. And I know I can eat this because...
Harriet Thompson 27:17
Oh gosh, why have I never done that?
Jane Perrone 27:22
Your eyes are slightly like [screws up face]. But it's so good. And every Oxalis is has a different they're all edible. They've all got a different flavour.
Harriet Thompson 27:31
Yeah, right in saying that you're not supposed to eat too many of them though.
Jane Perrone 27:34
You don't want to eat too many. They've got Oxalic acids so like rhubarb and things. I mean, lots of things. You'd have to eat pounds, I think, to cause a major problem. But I think you know, as I always say, check with your doctor first, I like if you've got gout or something, I think you have to be particularly careful. But I think if you're using it like in the way you probably would as a garnish in a salad. Not really a problem.
Harriet Thompson 27:59
So yeah, so we've got the Caladium beds here. They're all growing, they're heated from underneath. So I've made all the heat beds in here. They're super super great in terms of I'm then only heating an area small area rather than the whole greenhouse.
Jane Perrone 28:20
So how do you cope in the winter then? Your plants are okay, presumably they're quite adapted ...
Harriet Thompson 28:26
Absolutely. So that's a great with them being UK grown they kind of have to be a little harder on the whole greenhouse because financially can't do that. Yeah, it's a lot of money. I would eventually like to be 100% solar panels. Solar panels, solar powered, sorry. But that will come. Yeah, time. So. So yeah. Because the majority of these come from Florida Caladiums do, so yeah, it's a great way to buy them UK. Yeah. Yeah. I've got coffee beans coming up over here.
Harriet Thompson 29:02
A bit of an error though. This is me being truthful. I didn't nick the seeds.
Jane Perrone 29:02
Oh, wow.
Jane Perrone 29:10
Okay, so you've got the seed coatings sitting on the top.
Harriet Thompson 29:14
Yes. I'm gonna have to go around and do a bit.
Jane Perrone 29:16
Oh, okay. Great plant though.
Harriet Thompson 29:19
Yeah, definitely. And that's all part and parcel of learning to grow.
Jane Perrone 29:22
Yeah, exactly, and I love growing house plants from seed. I encourage you every year on the podcast, because I think you learn so much along the way don't you really learn about your plants.
Harriet Thompson 29:32
If you can grow them from seed and keep them as a baby plant, generally speaking, you'll be able to keep it as an older plant as well.
Jane Perrone 29:40
Exactly, and it will adapt to your conditions too - like it won't be used to some other sort of, you know, Nirvana before your place.
Harriet Thompson 29:48
Well, that's definitely a thing I think, you know, we think that this plant could go for example, and asparagus fern. We're all told bathroom. Bright indirect, partially shaded, and you know, keep them moist, but actually in some other people's houses that doesn't suit them because they either have a colder bathroom or I don't really like general advice.
Jane Perrone 30:10
It's hard to give advice that fits every scenario isn't it?
Harriet Thompson 30:14
Absolutely
Jane Perrone 30:14
It really is! Right, we're gonna be heading outside and round the corner.
Harriet Thompson 30:19
So that's the seed side. And we'll just go into we'll just go into the other side now, which is where all the slightly larger stock is, but I don't keep anything too big in here. Because I'm a working nursery. It's always growing and then it's gone.
Jane Perrone 30:36
Yeah.
Harriet Thompson 30:38
You actually haven't been in here yet.
Jane Perrone 30:39
No, this is awesome. I will love coming into greenhouses
Harriet Thompson 30:44
It's empty, though at the moment. I'm trying to get rid of lots of stock to new stockists, and then I will be regrowing as of next week.
Jane Perrone 30:54
Okay, well, it looks pretty full to me. But I can imagine it gets even more packed.
Harriet Thompson 31:00
Yeah, so we usually have a higher level and a lower level. So yeah, let's have a walk around. Strelitzia here, bird of paradise. Great plant orange flowering really easy to care for. I think in America, you could probably grow these outside. Depending on zones. Rhipsalis...
Jane Perrone 31:23
So presumably, these are all plots that you've propagated from your own mother plants?
Harriet Thompson 31:27
Yep. So when I first started, I bought in lots of bigger plants with this in mind, and I've just kept them ever since. And they are now they work for me.
Jane Perrone 31:39
They work for you! Ah, I think that it's just, I just love propagation. I just can't get enough of it.
Harriet Thompson 31:48
It's so fun!
Jane Perrone 31:51
Yeah, it's the best thing in the world. And I always sort of I'm surprised when people say oh, my plants reached the top of its moss poll, what am I going to do? And I think to myself, that's the fun part for me, start hacking it back!
Harriet Thompson 32:04
I get a little bit worried sometimes., with - so for example, if you've got an outdoor space, naturally, at certain times of the year we prune our plants indoors people get a bit worried about pruning. Yeah, but it is exactly the same - you know, plants do - you know, if you want a specific shaped indoor plant, you can absolutely achieve that. It's just all about and give them a give your cuttings away to friends.
Jane Perrone 32:29
They make sense. Exactly, exactly. I hope nobody leaves my house without some kind of plot.
Harriet Thompson 32:37
How many have you got, do you know?
Jane Perrone 32:38
Oh, I don't know. I don't really count. But I'm always propagating because I just love it so much. There's always stuff to give away. And you know I have had people say oh, you know, can I buy this plant off you? And so I just raise money for my local hedgehog rescue and it's just like, if I start bringing money into it, for me it just as an individual I'm like, You know what, don't want this to be a money thing.
Harriet Thompson 33:06
Totally.
Jane Perrone 33:07
But that said I would encourage anyone who is into houseplants and wants to set up their own nursery like you have to do it to make it a business because it's your kind of business that people should be supporting.
Harriet Thompson 33:19
Yeah, absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree, I think it's important to, you know, if you've got one of those dreams go for it.
Jane Perrone 33:28
Definitely, if you love propagating!
Harriet Thompson 33:30
If you love propagating, get a nursery! With that being said it is very it's a lot of work.
Jane Perrone 33:39
Oh my gosh.
Harriet Thompson 33:40
You don't come into this thinking it's going to be easy because it really won't be but...
Jane Perrone 33:46
What kind of temperatures does this get down to in the winter?
Harriet Thompson 33:50
So in the winter this I mean it will get down to freezing if to allow it but on those I don't like get letting it go below six degrees [centigrade] basically. So this heater right here behind me was on diesel, obviously is highly unsustainable diesel is. So this is getting converted over to vegetable oil at some stage, which is a clean burning fuel. So fingers crossed, but I also won't be in this nursery forever. So I will have to at some set in in. I've got I've said that wrong. We have to at some stage move out of here and go into you know, a larger space where things are just a little bit more. You know, at the moment I've got all the shade netting above me that I've put up and I take down every year and it's a nightmare. So one day we'll go and have electric shade netting. You don't know how much I'd love that!
Jane Perrone 34:47
Shade netting, yeah, that would be awesome. You've got all the Chlorophytums here going crazy.
Harriet Thompson 34:55
Yes. And again I keep the mothers and they all they grow babies for me and then I propagate from them and they go into coir pots and peat free compost and same with the larger Monsteras over that side as well. When I first started I was 80% bought in 20% cuttings from the mothers. It then went the following year to 80% cuttings 20% bought in and then the past two years now I haven't bought in now for a year and a half.
Jane Perrone 35:27
That's incredible.
Harriet Thompson 35:29
Yeah, it's something that I never thought. I don't think I ever thought I would do until I did it. And then I've done it now.
Harriet Thompson 35:38
So yeah, it's huge for me. So I love that I can grow peat free plants for not only for the end customer but also for the shops that want to change as well. Or make a difference, you know, so a change doesn't happen overnight. You know, these big nurseries in Holland, they can't go peat free overnight - I would like them to go eat free overnight, but you know, they've got systems in place that work with the way that they grow now, but it will happen - it just would like I'd like it to happen now.
Jane Perrone 36:07
Yeah.
Jane Perrone 36:09
Change is coming
Harriet Thompson 36:09
Change is definitely coming.
Jane Perrone 36:12
Well that's that's really good to hear. I mean, what are the difficult parts of this business for you? Is it just that there's just so much to do and so much demand that you struggling to supply?
Harriet Thompson 36:24
Struggling to supply, I think I would like to be able to grow more species of what I've already got, I'd just like to grow more always. And I think my problem is, you know, I have a good month in terms of my trade customers but then because I am so small at the moment I then can't grow enough in time for the next month's trade so it's just having these big nurseries have like a nursery for the following year for example, whereas I don't have that.
Jane Perrone 36:58
And then you got to add on to that like doing a newsletter, the world is going you know there's just so many different demands I can imagine.
Harriet Thompson 37:09
You know when you get a screen report, and I got a screen report the other day it says you're 15 hours down on Instagram this week. How do I spend 15 hours on Instagram? That's part and parcel of the job.
Jane Perrone 37:23
Yeah exactly. I spy Hoyas I'm gonna go let's go to the Hoyas let's go and check these out.
Harriet Thompson 37:33
These Hoya linearis are getting propagated down because they got sun scorch unfortunatley, and ah, yeah, I didn't get the shade netting up in time. But that's fine. You win some you lose some.
Jane Perrone 37:46
They'll be okay. They are toughies, they will be okay.
Harriet Thompson 37:49
But that's a lesson in itself. If your houseplant isn't looking too great, lett's not throw it away straightaway, let's try and figure out the problem. So I've got these lovely fishtails here.
Harriet Thompson 37:59
Oh, yeah. One of my faves.
Harriet Thompson 38:01
They're so nice, but actually quite hard to find. So yeah, well they were ...
Jane Perrone 38:07
I think they're becoming more more popular, Hoya polyneura. But I find them quite ... between the two, between the polyneura and the linearis. I find this [the polyneura] is much more thirsty than this [linearis]. Yeah, it really like. I mean, I'm very mean with water. So I'm always struggling to like, oh, that needs more water than I thought it did. But I find with those that Hoya polyneura that it really is quite a thirsty plant.
Harriet Thompson 38:34
Do you water yours from the bottom or do you...?
Jane Perrone 38:37
Depends what's going on. Sometimes it gets water flung at it from sometimes it gets a good soak, it really depends.
Harriet Thompson 38:46
It's those easy care plants though. The ones that are happy with a little bit of water.
Jane Perrone 38:50
Yeah, moving on to this Hoya carnosa is that 'Krimson Queen'?
Harriet Thompson 38:55 Yeah.
Jane Perrone 38:56
Which is one of my oldest houseplants. I mean that - I just think if you want a beginner Hoya that is just an absolute dream. It's such a good plant. Yeah, it's a really nice one.
Harriet Thompson 39:08
And they love being pot bound as well, which means you have to report every year. So
Jane Perrone 39:12 Yeah, exactly. And I love a plant that doesn't need repotting all the time.
Harriet Thompson 39:16
I agree with you!
Jane Perrone 39:17
I am sure you're the same, you must be spending so much time potting stuff up. Yeah. Potting, repotting ...
Harriet Thompson 39:23
And cuttings!
Jane Perrone 39:23
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Harriet Thompson 39:26
So that's one thing about having a pesticide free nursery at this stage. You know, I do have slugs in here every now and again that will come in overnight and demolish everything. Well not everything. But they'll demolish a patch.
Jane Perrone 39:39
Feels like everything at the time!
Harriet Thompson 39:41 It's like when they go over your lettuces at home and then you're like, oh no! But that's part and parcel of doing it the way that I do it. I kind of like it. Oh, well fed slug, it's fine! Yeah.
Jane Perrone 39:57
It's part of you know, if we didn't have slugs, we'd be like knee deep in non-rotting things!
Harriet Thompson 40:02
Absolutely, they have their purpose.
Jane Perrone 40:06
They do, they really do and I think we're gradually learning that, aren't we? The only thing that I, that I think I failed to struggle to see a purpose for is fungus gnats. I know you've got your sticky traps up here. That must be a struggle to keep on top of that.
Harriet Thompson 40:16
Yes they are a nightmare. But what I will say is, while the majority of this nursery is very tolerable to them, they don't do, they don't do much damage anyway bar the larvae underneath. I spread nematodes throughout the greenhouse, when I have a huge problem with them. I remember my first year and because I wasn't as knowledgeable as I am now, I really struggled with them. To the point where I was like, I can't send these plants out because they're, they're covered in fungus gnats, and then now you know, the, the yellow sticky traps, which are great. And then the nematodes kind of keep on top of things. And then I do spray with neem oil and washing up liquid. For any pesticide free growers at home, that's a great way of like, you know, keeping things at bay. Yeah. The washing up liquid is even without the neem, the washing up liquid on its own with water in a spray bottle is a great way of keeping pests in check.
Harriet Thompson 40:21
I think people worry too much about fungus gnats, though, because I mean, I think it's that thing of yeah, it's it's not actually doing that much damage. It's just annoying you and they are annoying,
Harriet Thompson 41:36
And they don't they look unsightly don't they?
Jane Perrone 41:39 I think that's the problem for people. But really, there could be a lot worse things to be. Oh, yeah, absolutely suffering from Yeah, but I think and also, we waste a lot of time with kind of home remedies that don't really work on fungus gnats. And I'm always trying to educate people about as you say, the nematodes are just such a good solution.
Harriet Thompson 42:00
Oh they really are they really are, they are doing the job for you.
Jane Perrone 42:03
Just bottom watering or putting some cinnamon on the top is not going to solve your problem. You need the nematodes, you really do? Yeah. But I guess as I say, if you if you bring living beings living things into your house...
Harriet Thompson 42:19
We're going to expect other living things to come with them.
Harriet Thompson 42:24
I love that though. I almost love the fact that, you know, if at home I've ever had a mealy bug, I'm like, oh, well, that means I'm not chemically feeding my plant so that it's, so a mealy bug can't survive - don't get me wrong, I don't want mealy bugs at my house.
Jane Perrone 42:42
No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. And they're, they're part of life. They're a part of houseplant life, you know, these big nurseries will have pests in them. Because if you go down the route of biological controls, there's always going to be a base level of pests aren't there?
Harriet Thompson 42:58
For a biological control to work you have to have pests, otherwie the biological control doesn't survive.
Jane Perrone 43:04
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Harriet Thompson 43:06
Yeah. It's just keeping on top of it. And it's and it's management. Always management.
Jane Perrone 43:10
Yeah, exactly.
Harriet Thompson 43:12
And having a management scheme in your own house as well, to keep on top of things is a great way of keeping them at bay and reducing them.
Jane Perrone 43:23
Yes. Exactly.
Harriet Thompson 43:25
And you will find that this time of the year as well, because it's warmer now, more pests are present. I don't see any in the winter.
Jane Perrone 43:32
No, no, they do have a lifecycle, don't they? They don't necessarily come around all year. All year long.
Harriet Thompson 43:42
Lots of growing, and I will at some stage have lots and lots more plants in here. So yeah, it's all it's fun. I love it.
Jane Perrone 43:51
Well, I mean, sitting at a computer all day. Yeah. How boring would that be? I mean, I know that's boring, because I do that most of my time. But I guess it's one of those things where it's balanced. I'm sure when you've worked like a 12 hour day and you've been you know, scratched up or cold and hot and tired. It's probably you probably would have quite fancy sitting at a screen for a few hours.
Harriet Thompson 44:13
It's extremes as well in here like, because nothing is automated. You know, in the winter, it's cold. And I'm working in the greenhouse, but it feels like I'm working outside. And then in the summer it is hot. You know, so. And I have the fans in here. And the windows and doors are always open in this in summer and spring, but it's still hot. So yeah, it takes its toll sometimes, but it's great. I wouldn't want to do anything else, which is - I never thought I would be able to say that.
Jane Perrone 44:46
Well that is fantastic. And I'm just I salute you because I love what you're doing. And it's really exciting to see that you're making this business work and funnily enough, a new plant shop opened near me the other day and I was talking to the owner and she said, Oh yeah, I'm gonna get some plants from Harriets Plants. And I was like, well, funnily enough. And yeah, that was really funny because without prompting, because I was like, I knew that she had a sort of a sustainability brief for her shop anyway, and I was just really glad to hear that I didn't have to tell her about you, because she already knew.
Harriet Thompson 45:20
Lotsand lots of shops, now - well, lots of lots of people that are opening shops as well, they have either a horticultural background, or they want their plants to be as sustainable as possible. And if they can then offer that to the final consumer, then that's great. So I'm having more and more conversations with more and more people now. So. Yeah, it's phenomenal. I think we should all be peat free.
Jane Perrone 45:43
Yeah. Let's get that peat free message out there. Thank you so much, Harriet, for chatting to me today. And I'm just loving this greenhouse. And I'll do a little bit of waiting for you as I wander around. Oh, my gosh, I can see as you're talking picking out little Euphorbia seedlings.
Harriet Thompson 46:02
I do it all the time!
Jane Perrone 46:02
I mean, gosh, it's yeah, it's always just instinct, isn't it?
Harriet Thompson 46:06
It's also when you're showing somebody around...
Jane Perrone 46:11
I mean, you know, I just I that's one of the things I've got people coming around. You're like, oh, that needs repotting. Yeah. Hey, this is reality. This is what it's like running a nursery.
Harriet Thompson 46:22
There's always a job.
Jane Perrone 46:23
There's was a job to do. But thank you so much for joining me today, Harry. I will make sure that I direct people to your website or in the show notes, but just tell me where we can find you online.
Harriet Thompson 46:35
So it's www.harrietsplants.co.uk and it's @Harriets.plants on Instagram. So I think I do have a Twitter but I don't use it so I don't even know what the handle is!
Jane Perrone 46:46
Fair enough! And thank you so much.
Jane Perrone 47:00
Thanks so much to Harriet. Do check the show notes for some images of Harriet in her greenhouse, and links to her website and Instagram. That's all for this week's show. I shall be back next Friday. I hope you'll join me then. Bye
Jane Perrone 47:31
The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops, The Road We Used to Travel When We Were Young by Komiku and Love Wins by Lee Rosevere. The ad music was Dill Pickles by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All Tracks are licenced under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.
I visit the nursery of UK houseplant grower Harriet Thompson to find out more about the challenges of growing houseplants sustainably.
This is part three in my sustainability series. You can hear other episodes on this theme here.
This week’s guest
Harriet grows peat-free houseplants for the retail and wholesale market from her greenhouse in Lichfield, Staffordshire. You can read her philosophy on growing here, and more useful articles on peat and other issues here. She’s on Instagram as @harriets.plants.
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Dill Pickles by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra, Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku and Love Wins by Lee Rosevere.