Episode 192: houseplants and mental health
Transcript
Episode 192
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Jane: It's Friday, which means it's time for more foliage-based fabulosity with me, Jane Perrone, and On The Ledge podcast! In this week's show, we're talking about houseplants and mental health with Amy March of Perky Plants and we're hearing from listener Ana Cristina, from Colombia. Plus, I answer a question about a fern that's gone manky. Yes, a technical term there!
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Jane: Just a reminder, there are two more episodes, including this one, until my summer break. No show between 30^th^ July 2021 and 3^rd^ September 2021. What will you do without me? God knows! What am I going to be doing? Well, I'm going to be writing my book, Legends of the Leaf, which is coming along very nicely and I've managed to speak to several listeners who signed up for the houseplant consultation pledge reward level on the book, which has been great. There are two people I haven't heard back from, so if you are Jennifer from Oregon, or Gina from Birmingham, I've sent you two emails. Please get in touch, so we can set up your houseplant consultation!
Thank you to those who've become new Patreons in the last week or so. Kimberley, Raymon, Megu and James all became Ledge-ends and they're helping to keep On The Ledge on the go. Thank you also to SallyInTheGarden from the US, Riddler96 from the UK, UnderbartRoligt from Sweden and CDINBC from Canada, who all left delightfully, gorgeously wonderful reviews for On The Ledge podcast on their pod app of choice, which is probably Apple Podcast, but other pod apps are available. I'm a Stitcher user myself, oh and a bit of Spotify too. These reviews not only make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, they also convince other people that this is a high quality podcast - none of your dreck here - and that is a wonderful thing, so thank you to all of you!
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Jane: If you are a member of the human race then these past eighteen months or so have been a little bit stressful and, for many of us, houseplants have been a fantastic refuge in that time. We're always hearing about how fantastic houseplants are for our health and this is something I've covered in On The Ledge podcast in various guises over the last 190-ish episodes. But, what happens when your desire for new houseplants starts to eat away at your household budget, or starts to challenge your relationship with your loved ones? This is an issue that we all should be addressing and that's what this week's episode is about.
Amy March, of Perky Plants, runs an Instagram account that really delves into these issues in a way that is approachable and fantastically relevant for so many of us. Amy runs her own plant shop called Perky Plants and you can find her on Instagram at @Perky.Plants and in this chat we cover everything from how to budget for new plants, to what to do when depression means you just can't look after your plants anymore. Amy's got loads of tips for how to deal with that houseplant overwhelm that we all feel from time to time.
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Amy: Hi Jane! My name's Amy, I am a mental health nurse and a really big plant fan. I've got a nice collection of plants and I'm just really passionate about plants, the plant community and the impact it has on mental health, from my mental health nursing background perspective.
Jane: Tell me a bit first of all about your background as a mental health nurse and how that's informed your plant collecting.
Amy: I've been qualified nearly two years now, so I qualified in 2019, and it was probably in my second year at uni when, like, my personal plant collection blew up. I went from, like, ten and probably slightly more than the average human being having plants in the house, to, I think we went up to like 100 within a couple of months! My collection just blew up! I think part of that, for me, was I was really stressed with uni and plants were this stable thing that were just really reliable, that were there and they brought me so much joy. And being able to go out and buy plants, when I probably should have been writing essays, that was just what I preferred to do! They made me feel really good in that moment. I guess going into year three of uni, so it was the summer period between year two and year three, that my plant collection skyrocketed. Then halfway through year three, maybe, I was a bit like, "I can't do this! This is too many plants!" and I started thinning out my collection and giving some to friends and some of them had perished so they had to go because I just didn't have the time to care for them. I think I went through that phase of collecting everything I possibly could, to "I need to get rid of some. This is way too much!". At the end of uni, I think, was when I started finding out about the rarer plants, the harder to get ones and that sparked my passion again, but I was also in a really good place where I knew how many I could care for, realistically, and I was quite content with my collection and I guess I'm still in that place now, I'm still in a really content place. There are plants I want and I can't afford them right now, so I'm budgeting and I'm saving up for them and one day I'll own them, but I'm quite content with where I'm at.
Jane: Well, that is a good place to be and I think so many listeners will recognise the journey that you've been on in the last few years. There is a massive positive to collecting plants, as anyone who's listened to this show will be aware of. Let's just have a look at that really positive side first of all. Is it an endorphin rush? That's what I always think of it as. When we see beautiful plants and we have the thrill of seeing a plant that we've wanted, that's on our wish list, it gives us a good feeling. What's that all about?
Amy: I'm not a neuroscientist, so I don't know all of the correct terms, but I know we get like a dopamine rush. It's not quite like a feel-good chemical, which it often does get referred to as, but it's, like, "Oh yes, that was good! Let's do that again" which is where that, like, "Oh, I bought this plant, I really, really loved it, it's still alive, I'm going to go and do that again with another plant" and that builds up the desire to get more. I suppose, with plants, there's the element of, like, caring for them, there's that urge that we get and that's a chemical reaction to oxytocin, I think. So you get that urge to care for this thing that you've brought into your home because if you don't care for it, it's highly unlikely that it's going to survive in your home. You get that nurturing sense and then a new leaf comes, or it blooms, and then you get that dopamine rush and it's like, "Yes, I did that! I want to do it again with a different plant!"
Jane: There is a lot to be said for that. I know that is something that really helps me and I was talking recently on Facebook, I think it was, or possibly Instagram, about how, when I was in isolation when a family member had Covid and I was stuck at home, I would literally go out to my greenhouse to un-grump myself because I was just so grumpy and I was like, "The only thing that's going to work is just spending some time with these plants, that's the only thing that's going to get me out of this foul mood that I'm in". My family were, like, "Go, mother! Go! Get out of here until you're better!" It is an amazing thing and I'm sure when a lot of us were at home, that was something that was keeping us all going. What I love about your Instagram presence is that you're quite honest about the potential negative side of plants and I think this is something we all need to explore. I've been through this feeling of having too many plants, like you. I had Ctenanthe, which has just been causing me anger because it's covered in spider mites and I've put most of it in the compost. I've left a couple of stems of rhizomes, which I've cut all the leaves off. I'm just going to regrow it and give that away to somebody. I'm like, "I do not need you in my life with your needy, spider mite self!" and it felt really good. So that can bring good feelings as well; getting rid of plants that we don't like.
Amy: I have a lot of conversations with newer plant parents, but they're, like, "This plant is really struggling". They can't figure it out and I'm just, like, "Let it go! Just because you brought it into your home, it doesn't mean you have to keep it. If it's not the right fit, let it go. Someone else will love it and figure it out. Just having that freedom, I think people really need to be aware that letting go can feel just as good as saving a plant.
Jane: I think there is a lot of pressure exerted by things like Instagram, where you see somebody else and they've got 50 Calatheas all looking amazing and you're, like, "Well, I've got to have that as well!" Well, maybe you don't have the right conditions, maybe you don't have the time, maybe your house is not light enough, or humid enough. There's so many factors that means that that person can grow one plant well. When you're looking through Instagram, do you have a script that you're telling yourself when you suddenly see something that you desire, or how do you manage those Instagram expectations?
Amy: Oh, that's a really good question. I don't actually know. I think experience has just crept in. I'll scroll through and people have beautiful collections and I just know that their environment is so completely different to mine. It's highly unlikely that I could have the same collection to the standard that they have and I think I have just accepted that. I do think that takes time because it definitely wasn't always like that. I do remember the utter disappointment of seeing these beautiful plants, buying them, having them in my home and then just watching them perish and it can be really gut-wrenching and you feel like a massive failure and, like, "Why? Why can't I do this?". I guess it's just come with experience, that I know who I am as a person. I'm a massive under-waterer.
Jane: I've realised that too. I know we're always saying, "Oh, well, most plants are killed by too much water" but not in my house!
Amy: Definitely not in my house either! So I know that I cannot bring in really thirsty, demanding plants unless they're going to be in a spot in my home that I walk past every single day, I look at them every single day and I will know when they're thirsty. I cannot have thirsty plants in my home. They will die. They will!
Jane: I think positioning of plants is also really crucial. Obviously you've got to pay a lot of attention to light needs and so on, but I think, also, a lot of the things that I see on Instagram, in terms of, like, hanging plants and plant displays, I'm thinking to myself, I just know that I would never find the time and inclination to get that hanging plant down off that 20-foot high thing to water it every few days. That, for me, would be, not going to happen!
Amy: I've got into a nice routine with my plants. I check on them, I check on different ones, I've not set up this routine, like, I'm going to check on this plant at this time, but it just happens. In the morning I check on the bigger plants to see if anything exciting is going on and then, in the evenings, I tend to go and, like, potter around with the smaller plants and check on them.
Jane: I also think that there's a tipping point with a plant's health in that the more miserable a plant is looking and, in that sense, the more it needs care, the less I want to deal with it.
Amy: oh yes!
Jane: It's really bad because it means that things that suddenly go really wrong, I can't quite face the trauma. My gorgeous String of Pearls, which I think probably people have seen on my Instagram before, which was almost two metres long, suffered root rot over the winter and I didn't realise. I kept watering it... I normally don't water it at all and for some reason my brain was stuck on the idea that it was wrinkling because it needed more water, not because it was root rot. It was awful and it took me such a long time to get round to trying to save it because I was just so, "Oooh noo, I can't deal with it!" so I sympathise with that position.
Amy: I was thinking, when you were talking about it, it was looking wrinkly, so it needed more water but the roots were rotting, but actually it did need more water, it just didn't get the water.
Jane: The silver lining of that though is that I thought I could save the main plant, I clearly couldn't now I look at it, I took some cuttings and I literally just chucked one on the top of a Swiss Cheese Plant pot and it was there for weeks and it just rooted into the soil and that's the basis of my new plant, it's that totally neglected cutting. So lovely things can happen, that feeling when you just look around and you think that needs repotting, that needs repotting, that needs treating for a pest, it can be really, really overwhelming. What are your warning signs that you look for when you're becoming overwhelmed?
Amy: It's the putting off, isn't it? It's looking around, knowing that these plants need something from you and you just can't bear it. Normally I love repotting plants, but I know, when I'm just in that place where I'm starting to put it off, that's when I know that I'm starting to get overwhelmed, personally. If I know that there's something wrong with a plant and I just cannot figure it out, that's when I neglect them further and I put them out on the balcony and I just expect them to die, a bit out of sight: I can't look at you any more! Having said that, I put an Alocasia zebrina on the balcony I got months ago now because it was just absolutely spreadeagle, I couldn't get it to stand up straight. It was driving me insane, taking up so much space. I put it outside, all of those leaves have died off, but there's new growth, so it's living its best life out on the balcony now! I don't know what happened.
Jane: Sometimes it works. Sometimes that does help, doesn't it, when you realise that? What's the next step when you've got to that point? How do you get yourself out of that plant depression?
Amy: Yes, that's literally what it is, isn't it? For me, I always end up being in a bit of a battle between "Do you know what? I can't look after my plants. If I'm not looking after myself, I need to come first" but when you've done that bit, when you've looked after yourself and you've got a bit more energy and you've got a bit more brain space to hold all of the different plants' needs in mind, that's when I'll go round and I'll look at every plant and I'll write down what they need. I know, at the moment, in my phone I have a list of all the plants that need to be repotted. All of the ones that need to be a bit chopped up, propagated, because they're not looking that nice because they've been neglected for a long time and if I don't do something to make them look nice, they're not going to make it. Like you said, sometimes, when a plant's just a bit too needy and it's not looking that great, you don't want to pay any more attention. So I've got that list on my phone and I will set some time aside during a day where I'll tackle one task, so maybe it'd be, like, repotting my Hoyas, or propagating this plant. I'll break it down and take it step-by-step and not try and do it all at once.
Jane: That's a really good tip because I think, oftentimes, I think to myself, "Oh, I've got all morning. I'm just going to do everything" and then you get halfway through it and there's soil everywhere and you're not actually half way through it, you're probably a quarter of the way through it and you just sort of go, "Ohh!" and it becomes overwhelming. Whereas I think if you can just say, "Okay, well I'm going to repot one plant today, one plant tomorrow. I'm just going to set my goal, whatever it may be, however many I can realistically manage in a week, or whatever," then you slowly feel like you're getting it back, I think.
Amy: Yes, slowly but surely.
Jane: After the break, I'll be talking to Amy about dealing with your houseplants when you're feeling depressed and we'll hear from listener Ana Cristina from Colombia.
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Jane: Now, I hear a lot of people on social media saying, "I'm on a plant ban this month" or their other half has imposed a plant ban - that's another whole discussion! Does that work, that strategy of saying, "Right - not buying any plants until this date"?
Amy: I really think it depends on who you are as a person and your thinking style. So, I think, if you're one of those people that have quite an "all or nothing" style of thinking, a plant ban is probably going to work quite well for you because it's very all or nothing, isn't it? "Nope, I'm banned! I'm not bringing any plants into my home for this month" or whatever. I know that wouldn't work for me personally. It would make getting plants more desirable and that feeling of needing to have something new would be more intense if I put myself on a plant ban and I just know it wouldn't work. If you know a plant ban is not going to work for you, or if you've tried it before and it just failed, there are other ways you can do it. You could say, "I'm not going to spend more than this much money on a plant this month and if I want a certain plant, maybe I can trade for it, or swap some cuttings". Or maybe you could do, like, a partial: a bit of money, a bit of a trade. There's other ways around it. I think plant bans can work for some people but I'm not one of them!
Jane: Rather than a plant ban, I would, sort of, put myself in a plant audit situation, where, maybe if I'm going to get a new plant, then another one has to go.
Amy: One in, one out.
Jane: Yes, something like that, and just a reflection of, like, "How many things am I trying to propagate right now?" When people say, "Oh, my boyfriend's put me on a plant ban!" I don't know what to make of that. I can see both sides of it, and not knowing the story and the couple, it's very difficult to say, but if my husband ever tried to put me on a plant ban, I think he would know that was completely futile but, I guess at the same time, if sometimes it can be a caring partner who's looking at you and saying, "This is making you really unhappy. You are in an unhealthy practice here" and maybe actually trying to help that person, so it may not always be a negative thing, but I do worry about things being imposed by somebody other than the houseplant grower.
Amy: I do agree. I guess we don't know couples do we? My partner, in the early days, he was like, "Right, you've brought another plant in, so who's going? We've got too many!" and actually, it did come down to a conversation of "The plants are taking over! Our home is not very functional right now!" and having been able to have those honest discussions, because plants shouldn't impact the way your home functions, they shouldn't make it not liveable. You've got plants all over the dining table and they're all over the kitchen counter and yes, of course, I put plants on the kitchen counter when I'm watering them and stuff, but it's when there's literally nowhere else for them to go and they're really impacting your life. Having those caring partners that are able to say, "Actually, look! This isn't okay. We need to talk about this" then, yes, maybe plant bans are okay in that sense.
Jane: Like anything, with any relationship, it's about communication, isn't it? It's not about saying, "I forbid you from buying another plant". As you say, it's sitting down, having an honest conversation about how this shared space, which you both live in, works and how plants fit into that, how your mental health is being affected, your budget is being affected, by the way that your hobby is going. It's a really tricky one. As I say, I think it depends on the individual, but yes, it's all about communication, isn't it, as ever, which is not the easiest thing? I am not the world's greatest communicator - I'm free to advise that.
Amy: We might find it really calming to have, in a bedroom, a jungle. It could be really stressful and chaotic for somebody else.
Jane: I did have to cut back my really big Swiss Cheese Plant because there were two massive leaves blocking the TV and the other three members of the household weren't very happy that they could only see the TV from one end of the sofa, which is where the dog's normally sitting, so yes, everyone has to muck in and be reasonable! What about budgeting for plants? I think this is something that some people really struggle with.
Amy: Yes.
Jane: Do you set aside a certain amount of money, disposable income, that you can spend? How do you do that?
Amy: To be honest, this is something I'm just starting to do myself. Before now, it was pay all the bills, get all of the necessities that money needs to go on and then whatever was left, I was like, "Right, that's my plant money!" but I'm doing that less now and I'm actually trying to have a set amount of money that I can spend each month. If I don't spend that, it can go into a little separate account where I can build up my plant money, so if there's a really expensive plant that I want, it might take a couple of months. I'm worried that some people are going into debt to buy plants, or their finances are struggling to buy plants and, yes, I think budgeting is something that we need to be more vocal about in the community and just more honest about in our conversations. That's when the shame and secrecy around buying plants, even though you know you haven't got the money for them but you can't stop, that's when things start to really get out of hand. The more that we can talk about "I really wanted this but I can't buy it because I haven't got the budget for it", I think we need to normalise that in the plant community.
Jane: Exactly and I think that's all really good advice about putting the money aside and making it a nice thing that you can save up for something special. I guess just writing it down is really helpful. I think it's very easy, in this world of everything being virtual and virtual payments, to not actually realise how much you're spending every month on plants. If you're actually making a list, being honest with yourself.
Amy: Exactly and it's not just the plants, is it? It's the pots, it's the substrates, it's the growlights, the humidifiers. It's everything that goes into this hobby because a lot of people are to that level of adding in extra light and fans and humidifiers and grow tents. People are having such massive collections. It all comes down to money in the plant budget. When you write it down it can be quite stark, can't it, how much you've actually spent on plants and all the other stuff that comes with them each month?
Jane: That's where, also, people can fall into this trap of seeing plants as, they are a commodity don't get me wrong, but if you've got a collection then you see people having to sell off plants. That worries me as well because then you're in a situation of it's something that causes further stress, you're trying to balance the books somehow which, again, it gets scary. Perhaps you're valuing plants not on how much you're getting out of them but on what you can get for them. Obviously, lots of people run businesses around their plants, and that's absolutely fine, but it just does worry me that some people are buying a plant because they're thinking to themselves, "Oh, I can always sell this and make more money out of it". Of course, at some point, the bottom might fall out of this market quite suddenly. I think there will be a moment where suddenly plants are coming down in price and that plant that you were going to sell is not worth £200 pounds any more, it's worth £20!
Amy: It can change really quickly, can't it, to what's not available, suddenly, a month down the line, all the plant shops have it? I also have an online plant shop. It's really small and me and my partner run it but we also work and it's just a side thing. We've experienced that where we've got plants in and they cost us this much to get in but, actually, all of a sudden everywhere has them and we're like, "Okay, we're just going to get our money back on those. We're not going to be making a profit," which, from a business point of view, you can't really run a business like that, can you? It does, it happens so quickly, so quickly, and yes it is worrying. It is worrying.
Jane: I see a lot of people starting their little plant businesses, which is fantastic and lots of people have set up amazing businesses, but I also sometimes worry it's a bit like the people who say, "Oh, I really like cooking. I'm going to set up a cafe" without realising quite how much hard work and investment is involved in buying and selling plants. Sometimes I wonder whether this is their justification so they can buy loads more plants, so that they're going to sell them on? That would be me! I'd be, like, "I must have all these rare Hoyas for my shop!" and then I'm, like, "I'm keeping all the rare Hoyas!"
Amy: To be fair, well... I've not done just that but there are plants that come in for the business and I'm like, "Hmm, I think I want that!".
Jane: I would be terrible! I would have a plant job and I'd be like, "No, you can't have that plant, sorry. It's not for sale any more!" I find this when I'm in a garden centre, or something, if I see someone buying a plant that's really difficult, I'm itching to go, "Don't buy that! You don't know what you're doing! A venus fly trap isn't for you!". This is why I'm never going to open a plant shop! So we've talked about some of the things you can do if you do get to that problematic place. Depression is obviously something that lots of people suffer. If you get into a state of depression, as opposed to just feeling a bit negative about your plants, and you are actually depressed, that has its very own set of challenges, from the feeling that it's all overwhelming and you can't cope. Any advice for anyone who's suffering from depression but also has a houseplant collection?
Amy: Well, I guess if it's really, really bad and you're really struggling to look after yourself and getting up and showering, or cleaning your teeth, or brushing your hair, or eating, or maybe you're eating more, if you're struggling with just looking after yourself in a healthy way and completely not focused on your plants, it's really hard. What I would be inclined to say, is maybe ask for some help with your plants, but that's really hard to do. When you're in that case, actually asking for help, that can be a challenge within itself.
Jane: It's very easy for somebody who isn't suffering from depression to say, "Well, ask for help with your plants. That's the answer, clearly" but when you're depressed, that in itself is a massive thing that you might not be able to cope with. I have seen people on Facebook groups asking for help in terms of asking for people to re-home some plants and I think that's great, but it's not the easiest thing to do when you're in that state.
Amy: No, definitely not, and that comes with its own challenges, doesn't it. I mean 1) You're posting out on a Facebook group, "I'm in a bad place. Does anybody want to adopt these?" but you also have to then get those plants to that person and, actually, it probably is just easier to let the plant pass and die. Facing that after, when you come out of that period of time, whether that's a week, a month, a few months, maybe it's a year, just accepting that it happened and that, actually, you did what you needed to do to get through for yourself. Plant collections can be replaced. Even the most difficult-to-obtain plants, they can be replaced. You cannot. You absolutely must look after yourself first.
Jane: Yes, okay, a plant's died. It's sad, but it's compost now. I think that's a really, really powerful message.
Amy: Some people might actually find it easier to look after their plants than to look after themselves. When you're in that space, you might end up finding that actually your plants are the only thing that get you through. I'm just thinking of all the different ways that depression presents for people and being able to focus on something else that's so not judgmental, your plants don't care if you are wearing the same clothes for a week and not washed your hair or brushed your teeth or anything, they might just want a drink. Actually, it's easier to look after a plant. They don't judge, they can be fairly simple in knowing what they need and sometimes that's the easier option, when you're in that place, to look after something else other than yourself. Then that leads on to being able to look after yourself, but it can be really complicated. I think plants are amazing for our mental health but they can also be really difficult and stressful when we're in difficult places and it's just finding the balance. Being honest with yourself, having that honesty and just being, like, "I can't do it with the plants right now," just put them all in the corner and leave them to fend for themselves for a bit, or just focusing on your plants, maybe that is what you need. Everyone's really different.
Jane: I think that's a really good note to end on, Amy, and thank you very much for joining me and for sharing some of your planty life.
Amy: That's okay. Thanks for having me!
Jane: Thank you so much to Amy and do check out the show notes for details of her website, with her plant shop and her Instagram and I'll also link to the houseplant hoarding episode that I did a while back, in case you want to listen back to that episode to find out more from a hoarding expert about the signs to watch for if you are developing a hoarding issue with your plants.
Patreon subscribers will be able to listen to an extra interview with Amy and I talking about houseplants and social media communities that'll be coming out in the next few days. I'd love to hear from you about the ways that you manage your houseplant collection in tandem with your own mental health, so do drop me a line. As ever the address is ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com and do indicate on that email if you're happy for me to read out your contribution on the show, or if it's something just between you and me, which is fine either way.
It's time for Meet The Listener! Let's head to Colombia!
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Ana Cristina: Hey Jane! My name is Ana Cristina and I come from Medellín, Colombia. I come from a place with a great variety of plants and all kinds of wildlife, like insects and mammals and, of course, a great variety of plants as well. In fact, did you know that there are more birds, amphibians and butterfly species per square metre in Colombia than anywhere else in the world? In Medellín, the city I'm from, we don't really have seasons and the weather stays nice and warm throughout the year. I have around 50 to 60 plants, but I was quite taken by your episode on plant hoarding. I've set myself the goal on really curating my collection, to make sure I'm not spreading myself too thin when having to take care of all of them.
Jane: When did you get into houseplants and why?
Ana Cristina: I grew up surrounded by plants, one way or the other, because of the weather in Medellín which is nearly perfect to keep plants, but really 2020 has given me the extra time I needed to really dive into the hobby. It is also a nice way for me to connect with my dad and to remember my grandma who was also a terrific gardener herself.
Jane: What's the latest addition to your houseplant collection?
Ana Cristina: The latest addition to my collection will be Hoya krohniana Silver;a beautiful, small-leaf Hoya that's happily living on my windowsill and I hope one day it will bloom.
Jane: Complete the sentence: "I love my houseplants because..."
Ana Cristina: I love my houseplants because they teach me a new thing every day. Regardless of how many books I can read, how many videos I can watch, or articles I find, I never stop learning something new and fascinating about them!
Jane: Who is your houseplant hero?
Ana Cristina: I would say Amanda from Planterina. She's a YouTuber from the US and it's because she made me feel that I was capable of taking care of any plant and that if I didn't succeed, it would be okay. She just taught me not to be afraid of bugs, not to be afraid of plants in general and that if mistakes happen, it's okay. I find that sometimes in the plant community there can be people that can put you down, especially in the beginning, but there are also wonderful people like her, or like you, that make you feel that you can achieve anything that you set your mind to, so I feel forever thankful for everybody that shares their knowledge.
Jane: Name your plantagonist; the plant you simply cannot get along with!
Ana Cristina: I'd say Alocasia Frydek for sure! After careful consideration, I got my hands on a very tiny one. I was hoping I could make it thrive and really grow fast, but it didn't matter what I did, it would shed leaf after leaf and the best humidity, very bright and direct light, I kept it warm, I gave it all my love and nevertheless, it still died! So even though it's still a really beautiful plant, I will absolutely stay away from it! Although I have had luck with a lot of other Alocasias, that one is just not for me!
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Jane: Thank you to Ana Cristina and you can put yourself forward for Meet The Listener, which will be back when I'm back from my break, just drop a line to ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com and my assistant, Kelly, will be in touch with the instructions.
Now it's time for Question of the Week and I'm heading out to a blazing hot potting shed to answer this question from Erin.
It is a gorgeous sunny day here at On The Ledge Towers and I'm heading out to the shed to answer Erin's question about her failing Stag's Horn Fern. I'm sorry, my gate is a bit broken at the minute. That's on the job list, to replace this winter! Erin and her Stag's Horn Fern, I've just got the message here on my phone. I'm actually going to go inside the shed because it's too hot. It's absolutely baking. I'm just leaning over the stable door that I've got here on my shed and the cacti and succulents are loving the wonderful heat. So, let's have a look. Erin's question refers to what she describes as a Stag's Horn Fern. Now, I looked at the pictures and immediately realised that there was an issue and this is why plant IDs are really important. Erin had misidentified her Stag's Horn Fern. It's actually an Asplenium nidus, probably the Cristate form known as Crissie and they have quite different care needs, so that will be affecting how Erin looks after her plant.
So, what's going wrong with this fern. as we've just established, Asplenium nidus? Well, it has had scale... Oh there's big bumble bee in here! Hang on a minute! Bumble, I need to help you! Will you let me help you out of here? I need my feather duster which is usually the thing I use to get bumbles out of here. Where's he gone? Okay, hang on, I don't want this to turn into an episode where I just chase bumblebees around but I'm also very aware that this gorgeous, huge bumblebee needs some help. Come on, guy - or lady, I should say, because you are most probably a lady. Come here, come on! I'm helping you. There you go. Oh man, sorry! Right, the second thing I use to help them is a very soft brush off a dustpan and brush, which I can usually hook them onto. There you go. Look, come on! Oh man, this one's determined to stay in here! Look, you're going to die if you stay in here matey. Let me help you. Yes, go, go, go, yes! Okay, it's out! Right, now that drama is over, back to Erin's plant! Now the brush has fallen because the tie has fallen off it. Erin's plant, yes, apologies for that! I have to save bumblebees because otherwise I will not earn my place in planty heaven!
"The scale infestation of a few months back was treated with isopropyl alcohol wipe downs and neem oil, monitored and repotted in an airy mix of small bark, pumice and charcoal. When the infestation seemed to have passed..." - scale does seem to really like ferns. Not sure why - "...there was a flush of new growth, but it's all been wonky," Erin says. "I embrace planty oddness but it seemed to deviate from the growth pattern I've seen in the past, so I just want to make sure it's not a sign of something gone wrong. Lately, some of the frond tips have turned translucent and wrinkly, some have developed
Sunken, darkly-rimmed spots." So, first things first, yes, you sometimes do get weird growth once you've had a pest infestation and this can be because the insects have been sucking the sap of the plant. They can introduce viruses but they can also just damage the plant as it grows and that can cause distortion, hopefully that won't last, long-term. Obviously with a Bird's Nest Fern, where it's a rosette shape and the leaves are coming outwards, it's not really something where you can cut that growth off without fundamentally affecting the look of the plant, so that's just something you may have to live with. In terms of the plant that we're talking about though, this cristate form is cristate, that means it does put out somewhat odd-looking leaves, they're not just a nice long shape, they have these cristate ends. So it may just be that the plant is just living its best life putting out those cristate leaves. That said, the problem with the spots and the translucent bits is much more worrying. There's a bit of a blackbird row going on over here!
On this front, I would say you need to think about the watering of the plant. I find that most of these ferns, such as the Birds Nest Fern, they like high air-humidity, but they also really like steady moisture around the roots. I would highly recommend putting this into a self-watering pot, Erin, because I think they just thrive that way. If you do that, generally, the problem with air humidity is reduced because the plant isn't being stressed at the roots and it can cope with drier air. So, I'd put this into a self-watering pot and accept that you're going to have some possibly wonky growth for a bit, but it should straighten itself out once it's happier.
Looking at the two forms of trouble that you've got on the leaves, I think some of it could be down to too much sun and they've been in a west-facing window, it's possible they've just had a bit too much light, they've got slightly sunburnt. As light levels rise in the Spring, plants can suffer from sunburn. The brown spot areas, again, that could be to do with the moisture levels around the roots. It may be that there's an issue there. I would put it in a self-watering pot and see what happens once the plant has allowed itself time to grow past this scale issue and do keep an eye out for the scale because they often come back in my experience.
So, that would be my top tips. They're epiphytes, these Bird's Nest Ferns, so they don't need a huge root ball, but what they do need is steady moisture. I've talked many times before on the show about my wick-watering technique, which is what I would use for this. Really, really simple: couple of nylon cords through the bottom of the pot and into a reservoir below that you top up. I usually fill that with expanded clay pebbles, it makes it nice and lightweight and doesn't end up with a really super heavy pot. I hope that helps, Erin, and I'm just going to sit here and enjoy my marjoram, which is absolutely alive with bees right now! It's a bee heaven. No wonder I've had bees in the shed because... what have I got here? I don't know if you can hear these bees? I've got bumbles, I've got honeybees, I've got solitary bees, I've got little tiny flies of some kind, not quite sure exactly what fly that is, and I've also got hoverflies and they're all loving this marjoram. It is just wonderful to watch them. So, yes, great pollinator environment here on this sunny day and let's say thank you to the bees!
On the lawn last night, while I was picking up dog poo, I found a wonderfully-coloured elephant hawk moth in an olive green and pink combination, or maybe - I'll put a picture in the show notes, or you can see it on my Instagram. It was the most gorgeous moth and these moths are really important pollinators too, so that's why we try to encourage night-blooming plants that can benefit moths as well. This marjoram is being thoroughly enjoyed by these bees. I could sit here all day but I've got to go and finish the podcast, so let's head back to the studio.
That is all for this week's show. I hope you enjoyed it. See you next week for sob the final episode before my break. Have a great week! Bye!
[music]
Jane: The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll from The Joy Drops, The Road We Used To Travel When We Were Kids, by Komiku, and Namaste, by Jason Shaw. The ad music was Whistling Rufus by The Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.
Subscribe to On The Ledge via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Player FM, Stitcher, Overcast, RadioPublic and YouTube.
Amy March of Perky Plants.
Plants can boost your mental health - but it’s easy to let you leafy obsession tip over into a damaging habit that impacts your wellbeing. I chat to Mental health nurse Amy March about how to deal with houseplant overwhelm, whether plant bans are a good thing, and how to develop healthy houseplant buying habits. Plus we hear from listener Ana Cristina and I answer a question about a bird’s nest fern.
THIS WEEK’S GUEST
Amy March is a mental health nurse and a houseplant shop owner whose Instagram is full of good advice for balancing your mental health with your love of houseplants!
On Instagram she’s @perky.plants and her plant shop is here: you can also read Amy’s blog. She lives in Bristol in the UK.
Want to read the Instagram post that goes with the picture above find out why it’s OK to not look after your plants.
I mention my previous interview on plant hoarding in this episode - you can hear that here.
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
Erin thought she had a stagshorn fern with a problem - turns out she had a bird’s nest fern with a problem! I identified what Erin thought was a Platycerium as being an Asplenium nidus, in this case a cristate form, maybe 'Crissie’. After a scale treatment using neem oil and alochol wipes, the leaves seem to have developed brown patches and some translucent areas. Both neem and alcohol can be quite harsh for some leaves, and this may have contributed to the damage - but bird’s nest ferns can also suffer when moisture around the roots isn’t consistent, and/or air humidity is too low. I find they do really well in self-watering pots or wick-watering systems.
Want to ask me a question? Email ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. The more information you can include, the better - pictures of your plant, details of your location and how long you have had the plant are always useful to help solve your issue!
THIS WEEK’S SPONSOR
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HOW TO SUPPORT ON THE LEDGE
Contributions from On The Ledge listeners help to pay for all the things that have made the show possible over the last few years: equipment, travel expenses, editing, admin support and transcription.
Want to make a one-off donation? You can do that through my ko-fi.com page, or via Paypal.
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The Ledge End tier gives you access to two extra episodes a month, known as An Extra Leaf, as well as ad-free versions of the main podcast on weeks where there’s a paid advertising spot, and access to occasional patron-only Zoom sessions.
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If you like the idea of supporting On The Ledge on a regular basis but don't know what Patreon's all about, check out the FAQ here: if you still have questions, leave a comment or email me - ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. If you're already supporting others via Patreon, just click here to set up your rewards!
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku and Namaste by Jason Shaw. The ad music was Whistling Rufus by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All tracks licensed under Creative Commons.