Episode 214: soil science part one
Soil scientist Ashley Esakin. Photograph: gardeningincanada.net
Transcript
Episode 214
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Jane: Is your houseplant care rooted in science? Let's hope so! We find out more with guest Ashley Esakin this week, delving deep into the world of soil science.
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Jane: Thanks for all your fabulous feedback on the new email newsletter on the UK houseplant scene, The Plant Ledger, which came out last Friday. The next one will be out next Friday, that's 25th March 2022, so plenty of time to subscribe for that and you get my free in-depth guide to tackling fungus gnats if you subscribe, so check out the show notes for details of how to sign up for The Plant Ledger. If you're a small, planty business and you fancy advertising in The Plant Ledger, also drop me a line and I can fill you in on the details. There are special reduced rates for the first three editions.
While I'm saying thanks, I'd like to extend a warm thank you to Ange who upgraded from Ledge-end to Superfan status! Ange, your special, exclusive Superfan card should be winging its way to you now, the postal service notwithstanding!
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Jane: Do you really know what's going on around the roots of your houseplants? This week's episode is really going to make you think because I'm joined by soil scientist, Ashley Esakin, from GardeningInCanada and she has so much good advice for us houseplant growers about how the substrate around our roots works and how it's affecting the growth of our plants. This interview was so rich, interesting and lengthy that I've decided to split it between two episodes. So in today's show you'll be hearing part one and next week, we'll get on to part two. I know I always say this, but this is really true for this episode, please do go and look at the show notes where you'll find detailed notes that go into the subjects that Ashley discusses in more depth and links to her YouTube channel and articles about certain topics that she covers, so do check those out, it will really help your understanding of the topic because it's quite a lot of science in here, which is fantastic. So, without any further ado let's welcome Ashley to the show and find out where we're all going wrong with our potting mixes.
Ashley: My name is Ashley Esakin and I'm a graduate from the University of Saskatchewan. I specifically graduated from the College of Agriculture and Bioresources with a major in soil science and a minor in plant science. Since then I've spent ten years in the industry on an agricultural side, helping with food production, but I've also been an avid houseplant owner since I was about fifteen years old. So my bedroom, as a teenager, instead of posters of Spice Girls and whatever else, it was literally wall-to-wall terrariums, aquariums and plants, so it was an absolute mess of a room, drove my parents insane but it thrived and it did very, very well because I used so much of the science that I learned from university and I applied it to my plants! So, fast forward into Covid when everyone started getting into plants, or gardening in general, I ended up with so many questions to the point that several of my friends said, "You need to make a resource bank that people can go to and just watch your stuff, or read your stuff, so you don't have to keep on repeating everything over and over again!". So out of pure convenience, because of friends and family, I made a YouTube channel and a website and I guess I picked up a couple of other subscribers along the way, but it's all in good fun! I really do enjoy it.
Jane: Your resource of information is most excellent, I have to say, and I will obviously put in the show notes your YouTube channel and website because it's enormously useful because there's a lot of misconceptions out there, aren't there? What are the major misconceptions that you face as an educator when you're talking to houseplant growers about soil science?
Ashley: I have four that are my biggest pet peeves: sterile soil, organic fertilisers, semi-hydro just in general and then humidity are my four biggest categories that I get a lot of misconceptions drawn from.
Jane: The one, out of those four, that really strikes me is the idea of making everything sterile. What should we be worried about finding in our houseplant soil?
Ashley: When it comes to sterile soil, I advocate absolutely do not sterilise it. The main reason for that is because if you're having issues, just in general with pests or disease, it's probably because you actually have a microbe imbalance. As soil scientists we understand this very heavily in an outdoor environment and it's starting to move into the horticulture realm as well. What it comes down to is the fact that when you have too many bad bugs and not enough good bugs, that's an imbalance. So we end up with presence of disease and pests because when we have the good bugs present they will generally out-compete for resources, both in the soil and on the surface of the plant, or they will actually eat each other, so the beneficials will eat the non-beneficials. I'm not sure what the case is for your viewers across the world, but here in Canada, and I know in the US as well, beneficial bugs are present, you can purchase them. So, anything you can get for the soil, whether it be nematodes or mites, always try to encourage that growth because that's going to help suppress things like mealybugs, thrips, fungus gnats, stuff of that nature. Then the other reason why I always say do not sterilise, is because a huge component of your actual nutrients that your plant uptakes has to go through some sort of microbe reorganisation, for lack of a better term. So when we have even just the nitrogen cycle, we have nitrifying and denitrifying bacterias and if we're using organic fertilisers we really do need those bacterias there. Even if we're using conventional fertilisers we also need them there, particularly if we're using a slow-release or a granular option, things of that nature. So, again, when it comes to nutrient cycling in general, you need those microbes present and without them your plant is not going to get the nutrients it needs. So do not go for sterile soil. Aim always for the dirtiest soil on the planet, that's always my motto!
Jane: That's good to hear. Beneficial insects are big here as well but there's also what I call the hydrogen peroxide brigade, that love to get that hydrogen peroxide onto the soil and are panicking about fungus gnats and think that's a great solution. I'm assuming that's pretty much going to be killing everything else in the soil?
Ashley: Yes. So whenever people will always ask, "Well, if I apply this, it won't harm the beneficial microbes, right? The beneficials will be okay?" a good rule of thumb is if it's harming bacteria and that's the aim, or the goal, of the product you're applying, then it's harming all bacteria. It's not genetically modified and when we're talking about glyphosates and stuff, that is a genetically modified plant with a chemical being applied, so that plant isn't affected by that chemical. When it comes to generic things like vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, yes, you're nuking everything in the system. Something to note, actually, when it comes to hydrogen peroxide, is that the shelf-stable stuff you get from your pharmacy or just at the store that you purchase, generally will be non-food safe and it will contain silver. Silver is the product that they put in it to try to neutralise or make it more shelf-stable and silver is actually really toxic to plants. So you may not kill your plant by adding hydrogen peroxide month after month after month, but you will reduce growth because you're basically constantly introducing a toxin which will hamper natural metabolical processes that happen in the plant. So if you are wanting to use hydrogen peroxide, which I would never advocate for, you want to get actual food-grade hydrogen peroxide. It's not nearly as shelf-stable, so it's going to cut into your plant budget even more, and it's not going to have the silver, so you're not going to have that toxic effect of the silver being introduced into your soil.
Jane: Ooh, that's interesting. That is interesting to hear! I had no idea about that, but that's really good to know. People think that because it's in their kitchen cupboard, similarly with things like vinegar, that it's natural and safe and okay and, actually, obviously, that it, in a way, it hasn't gone through all the many tests and hurdles that commercial products have to go through in order to be approved for use for these particular uses. So, in a way, they're kind of more dangerous, these home remedies. It seems to me a lot of them end up being more of a risky option?
Ashley: Yes, I totally agree. The other one that people will use is, like, Dawn dish soap and, horticulturalists know this, plant scientists know this, soil scientists know this, any sort of liquid dish soap is actually a detergent. It's not a soap. So it strips the cuticle of your plant and you end up, yes, killing off your spider mites, if that's the issue you're having at the time, but it also can leave a site open for bugs to attach to and attack the plant even harder because now it has a site that's even more lush and green and easier to contact and eat and suck from. So that's another one.
Jane: I'm just going through your list of your misconceptions here, semi-hydro, I mean we could have a whole episode on this, but what is it with semi-hydro that people get wrong? Because it's harder than it looks, possibly?
Ashley: I do both actually, which may sound funny as a soil scientist. I do full-hydro, semi-hydro and then, obviously, soil. I think the biggest misconception when it comes to using Leca or Lechuza Pon, is the fertiliser side of things. So people will simply just throw fertiliser into their reservoir or into their semi-hydro, so that would just essentially be the cup, or I find that they'll go to, like, a hydro place and they'll get the hydro fertilisers and then they'll amend with those. The reality is that plants, regardless of if they're in soil or out of soil, have a very specific pH in which they absorb nutrients and that range is actually pretty small. Whenever you're doing semi-hydro and you're just dumping fertiliser in, you're not helping your plant whatsoever because I can almost guarantee that your water is going to not be the pH it needs to be at. So adjusting that pH is huge to see good results. I did an experiment on my own with this. I did it with a Monstera pinnatipartita and I had both of them grown in Leca, same volumes of water, same vessels and same place, actually, in my house. One I just used regular tap water and I dumped in willy-nilly whatever fertiliser, the other one I actually adjusted my pH on. Here where I am, in Canada, it comes out to about a pH of eight, once I throw all my fertilisers in, so that's way too high, so I actually adjusted that and the results are drastic. It is honestly crazy to watch the difference between the two. So, whenever possible, always aim for synthetic fertiliser not an organic fertilizer. Organic fertilisers do not respond well in a semi-hydro system, aim for synthetic and always adjust the pH before you apply it to your containers.
Jane: Is there any point in testing the pH of your soil when you're doing soil-based growing? Or is it likely that whatever substrate you're using, if it's a conventional soil mix, will be just about okay?
Ashley: No. Actually, yes, you'd want to check that as well. I've experimented with this on my own and whether you're using peat or coconut coir, it tends to be on the more acidic side. Then, I find, as people start throwing in compost or vermicompost, anything like that, it ends up actually lowering the pH even further. Then, as the potting soil ages, I find it gets more and more acidic, which is normal because what happens is pH is a measure of basically free-floating hydrogen ions and as our compost or coconut coir and our peat moss get decomposed by the microbes, they're basically plucking off hydrogens from the compounds and then those hydrogens are just floating in the system, which obviously changes the pH. My buffer now, to counter that, is using lime or you could use gypsum, depending on what your test comes back at, and adjust it accordingly. It's so funny, this issue has plagued me for so many years. I've been so frustrated by it that I'm actually developing a sensor that accurately tests pH for people and tells them on an app what they need to do with their potting soil because it just drives me so crazy! You will have heavily restricted growth if that pH is not on the mark, so definitely, definitely important!
Jane: So is it worth investing in a pH tester because you can buy quite cheap ones, but I think, with this kind of thing, it's better investing in something that's going to last you?
Ashley: In an ideal world you'd want to get something of a little bit more substance. If you are buying it for less than $50 Canadian, I don't know what that would be in euro or pounds, whatever you guys are using there, but if it's under $50 or even sometimes under $70, it's probably not an ideal pH tester. You'd want to get something of substance. Keep in mind that can be used and reused across all your pots. These things don't just break in a year. This would be over the lifetime of your plant hobby. It can be used in the garden, that sort of thing. If you check your pH every time after you water it's going to give you a good idea of where everything's at and then you can amend it accordingly with the gypsum or the lime. In some cases, it may involve repotting, if it's really off, but if you're looking for really rapid growth, absolutely, get something to test your pH with.
Jane: Well I've just done a quick Google and I can tell you that $50 Canadian is about £29 and about €35 as we speak. So there you go, if anyone wants a translation. Although I often find when you actually go to buy the product, oftentimes it's the same in dollars as it is in pounds, just because things cost a bit more here, so who knows! As you say, if you invest in something that is decent, then it will probably last you a lot longer. Well, that's really interesting. How do you know how much lime or gypsum to add? Is it just a question of feeling your way and adding a small amount and then retesting and checking that you're not going too far?
Ashley: A general rule of thumb is that if you have a specific brand of potting soil mix that you enjoy and use, for pretty much an entire year that product will sit around the same pH in and about, just because of manufacturing, where it's being harvested from, that sort of thing. So general rule is, if you can find out the secret recipe per one bag, or bail we call sometimes here in Canada, then that would be your go-to. So for example, if you enjoy Pro-mix brand, which is very popular here in Canada, it's about one cup for the medium-sized bag. So not the small bag, the small bag is about half a cup but for the medium bag, that's below a bail, that is about one cup of lime, I find, just to bring that pH up.
Jane: I guess once you've got the pH tester, then you're good to go because you can be adjusting as you go and that way you're going to find the right level eventually, but that's good to have a guide? Let's talk about humidity here. Tell us what misconceptions people make about humidity.
Ashley: So I always get people saying, "My plants aren't growing!" or "I have yellow leaves!" or "I have crispy leaves and my ambient humidity is reading 60% or 80%" in some cases, when it comes to the IKEA cabinet greenhouses and I just can't help but to stress enough that humidity is not the be-all-and-end-all. Particularly, as a soil scientist, humidity and keeping it in balance and not necessarily high is very, very important. So, similar to the pH when we talk about plants, only uptake nutrients at specific pHs because that's when it's bio-available to the plant, the same thing kind of goes with humidity as well. So, if we look at a plant as a straw and the atmosphere around the plant as the stomach of the whole system, as a plant uptakes water, it actually needs to open up its stomata, or its guard cells that guard the stomata, to allow CO2 in. In that whole process, we end up with water leaking out. In some cases it can be very extreme, like if you have guttation, for example, you have literal water droplets on your leaves. That's a sign of very high levels of respiration, or in a majority of cases, we actually can't see it, we can't see the humidity lost through the leaves. What ends up happening if we have this really high humidity at 60% or 80% and we have water dripping off the sides of our IKEA cabinets, we have nowhere for that water in the leaf to go. So there's nowhere for the water to exit into and therefore the plant, when it opens its stomata to capture CO2, the water actually stays in place. What ends up happening, is that shuts off the tap to the soil solution below that contains all those valuable nutrients that the plant needs. So this is when we end up with lower water uptake, so we can end up with anaerobic bacteria, such as root rot. Root rot is an anaerobic bacteria that happens when we have water sitting too long in our soil systems. On the extreme side, we end up with nutrient deficiencies and that is caused by the fact that the nutrients are literally just sitting in the soil solution, wanting to be uptaken by the plant, but the plant has nowhere to put it because the plant has nowhere to place that extra water. So you always want the plant on a circular cycle where it's taking and exiting on a continual basis. I think the best way to coach houseplant people on this is to look up VPD, it's vapour-pressure deficit, and really master the science behind that and understanding how that works just a little bit better. Don't put too much energy into it and stress yourself out about it, but just keep in mind that the higher your humidity gets, the higher the ambient temperature needs to be and if you can't get your ambient temperature high enough to match the humidity levels you're aiming for, then back off on the humidity and bring the humidity down to a level that's useful to the temperature that you usually keep your home, or your IKEA cabinet, or your grow tent, or whatever you're growing in and just have those two match. You are going to see less crispy leaves, less yellow leaves, less leaves lost, actually, just in general, if you aim for a balance between humidity and temperature, rather than just these really high ends. If you see water droplets on your walls of your grow tents or in your IKEA cabinets, your humidity is way too high and your plant is not uptaking any sort of nutrients.
Jane: That is so interesting and you do see people sometimes posting on Facebook, and things, with leaves just falling apart in IKEA cabinets, which I presume is down to what you've already been talking about, but also the prevalence of maybe lack of air circulation causing issues with various diseases that can take hold in those circumstances where humidity is really high?
Ashley: Yes, so that's a great point, VPD again, actually. If you have the VPD in check and that value in check in your IKEA cabinets, you won't have disease. Disease happens when there's an imbalance between the temperature and the humidity. So if your humidity is too high for the temperature of your cabinet, that's when you end up with disease, bacterial and fungal growth and all that sort of stuff, so it all goes back to that. It's crazy, but yes.
Jane: That's so interesting because I think there is a conception that everything should be just lovely and muggy and humid but, as you say, if everything else isn't quite right then... we're gonna look up VPD now... have you got videos on that on your channel specifically, that we can go and watch?
Ashley: I do have it on my channel and then again, that sensor I'm developing is going to calculate VPD for you and it's going to tell you on an app.
Jane: Okay, so my listeners have got some VPD homework now! Great!
Ashley: Yes, I think that there's at least two videos on how to calculate it by hand and then I do have the blog post as well, that walks you through how to calculate that too.
Jane: Fantastic. Your fourth misconception was concerning organic fertilisers versus inorganic. I think we all want to think that organic must be better, but I suspect you're about to tell me that that may not be the case?
Ashley: Not 100%! So I don't actually mind when houseplant people use organic fertilisers. It's when people use organic fertilisers and then they allow their soils to dry out or they sterilise their soil and then use organic fertiliser. So my biggest thing when anyone says, "Oh, I'm using organic fertiliser and I have all these nutrient deficiencies" or "My plant is not doing well" I will always ask how dry do you allow your soil to get. If you are saying bone dry, or to the point that you're not feeling any sort of moisture on your fingertip when you stick your finger into the pot, then I will always try to steer the person into synthetics because they are scared of root rot, which is completely fair, maybe they're just not as experienced as a plant parent, which is totally okay, but we end up with nutrient deficiencies if we allow that soil to dry out or if we sterilise it because it goes back to those microbes. If you want to use organic fertilisers you need the dirtiest soil possible and that's just where the cut off happens there. As well, whenever you're using organic fertilisers, if you're not seeing things like mites or in some cases even fungus gnats or even a little bit of the white mould you see on the top of your your pots, if you're using organic fertiliser and you're not seeing that, that's a bad sign. That means you have a biologically dead soil, so you're not cycling any nutrients whatsoever.
Jane: I'm thinking of fertilisers that I've seen on the shelves and, indeed, use, and I can't remember whether all of them say, even tell you, whether they're organic or not? Is that something that generally, oftentimes, is left out of the jazzy sales materials, that vital piece of information?
Ashley: They should say 'organic'. If they don't say 'organic', they will have a stamp on it - it'll say OMRI - and that's an organic product that doesn't have any synthetics in it. Also, with organic fertilizer, you'll tend to find the exception of this is rock phosphate and the reason for that is because rock phosphate organic and rock phosphate synthetic is the same thing. It's literally a salt rock, but you'll find, with organic fertilisers, that the numbers are very low and the synthetic is very, very high. So if you're seeing double digits like 20s, 10s, 14s, that sort of thing, you probably have a synthetic. If you're seeing 3s, 4s and 5s, then it's likely organic.
Jane: Do we even need to scrape away the white mould, or is that like trying to chip away an iceberg?
Ashley: Oh, don't even touch it! There's nothing going on there. It's just hyphae, is all it is. It's just mycorrhizal hyphae popping up on the surface of soil. So, if you're using a mycorrhizal inoculant, for example, you will see white mould. That's just a fact. All it's doing, is it's decomposing the organic material in your potting soil and the reason why houseplant people see this so often, you maybe don't see fuzzy stuff accumulating on our soil outdoors at the base of a tree, is it comes down to the fact that our potting soil is all organic material. There's not a lot of soil in that, it's all technically soil-less and so because there's a tonne of organic material, it does need to be decomposed and it will be decomposed over time. So if you see it... I don't stress out about it. It could be a sign of over-watering but keep in mind if you have a porous potting soil, you're using things like Leca or Lechuza Pon in your potting soil mix, perlite, pumice, things like that, or it's a chunky mix, maybe, with orchid bark, that sort of thing. Don't stress out and think that it's over-watered. You technically really can't over-water a plant if you have a chunky bark mix and that's just a fact because there's so much air flow in that system. So you always want to keep it moderately moist, despite the fact that there's fungus. One thing I coach people to do, and most people don't realise, is that potting soil in general, regardless of what you're using, will have something called a perched water table in it. So it's essentially just this higher density of water in the bottom of our pot and that's just because that's how water works in a soil profile. It's based on gravity and capillary action. So bottom-waterers are very familiar with this as well. To eliminate that, especially if you know a bulk of your root zone is at the bottom of the pot, which is the case for a lot of plant parents, is just pull your nursery pot out and then give it a tip. So the lip of the pot is the highest point and the bottom corner of the pot is the lowest point - I have videos on Instagram and YouTube showing this - and you will notice you get a lot more drainage. It's actually because you're affecting what we call your water holding capacity, or your gravitational pull on the soil system, so you're going to eliminate any excess water that could potentially cause an anaerobic situation and then you know for sure your plant is okay. That's something else to bear in mind.
Jane: That is a really good one. I was doing that earlier today having taken some plants out to put in my trusty washing up bowl to water and I'm doing exactly that. The only trouble is that, it always is the case, that I just go too far and end up with soil all over the floor, which is standard really, but in fact, after this, I've got to go back in the house - thank God we've got hard floors - and do some hoovering to clear up the massive amount of mess I've made today with just a small amount of repotting. That is a really crucial point, that perched water table. Again, more homework for listeners! Go and learn about the perched water table!
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Jane: I'm going to say it one last time, do check out the show notes for links to Ashley's YouTube channel and other resources on her website. gardeningincanada.net and Ashley will be joining me again next week for part two. Can't wait! Until then, may your soil be alive with life. Bye!
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Jane: The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll, by The Joy Drops, and Overthrown, by Josh Woodward. Both tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.
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Soil scientist Ashley Esakin joins me to delve into the science of houseplant substrates.
This week’s guest
Ashley Esakin of gardeningincanada.net has a YouTube channel where you can find lots of information on houseplant soil science.
This is part one of a two-part series - you can listen to part two here!
The Plant Ledger is here…
Sign up now to get the next edition of new email newsletter covering the UK houseplant scene and you’ll get my free guide to dealing with fungus gnats!. You can have a peek at edition one here. If you are interested in advertising in The Plant Ledger, check out this page. I’ve written about why I’ve decided to launch The Plant Ledger here.
Check out the show notes as you listen…
Tips from Ashley:
Don’t aim for sterile soil, unless you are seed sowing. Microbe imbalances - too many bad bugs and not enough good ones - can be the cause of pest and disease problems, and this often happens when soil is sterilised and the naturally-occurring microbes are wiped out. Also, nutrients need to be processed by microbes, so their presence helps plants to access the food they need.
Don’t use hydrogen peroxide on your plants as it will destroy soil microbe communities - if you do use if, use food grade hydrogen peroxide. regular hydrogen peroxide from the chemist contains silver to make it shelf stable, and this is toxic to plants.
Don’t use dish soap on your plants as it strips the cuticle (outer skin) from the plant which leaves a site open for pests to attack the plant.
When fertilising when using semi hydro and hydro test your pH regularly. Aim for synthetic fertilisers. Check out Ashley’s video on fertilisers for hydro here.
It’s also wise to check pH for soil-based houseplants too as some soils are on the acidic side, and too high a pH will impact your plants’ growth. You can add lime or gypsum to adjust. Ashley is developing a sensor that tests pH. Try to test pH regularly after watering and invest in a decent pH tester which should last you many years.
Humidity is not as important as you might think it is! When the air is too moist (say, in an IKEA cabinet) the stomata cannot release water, which stops the plant from uptaking water and nutrients through the roots. The higher the humidity gets, the higher the ambient temperature needs to be. VPD problems can also cause bacterial and fungal disease, ‘melting’ leaves and so on. Vapor Pressure Deficit is the key thing to understand here. Check out Ashley’s video on VPD for more. She also has a very informative post on fast growth in houseplants and VPD here.
Do not use organic fertilisers if your soil is allowed to dry out regularly, or if you sterilise it - if you want to use organic fertilisers, use the ‘dirtiest’ soil possible as the microbes are necessary to help your plant take up nutrients.
Don’t worry about white mould on your soil surface. It’s just mycorrhizal fungi that is decomposing the organic material in the potting soil.
The perched water table is the higher density of water at the bottom of the pot. Tip the pot to remove excess water so that the perched water table is not too high, because water sitting in the pot can cause an anaerobic situation that damages roots. Find out more in Ashley’s video about why you should NOT put rocks in the bottom of pots.
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CREDITS
This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops and Overthrown by Josh Woodward.