Episode 301: Late Night On The Ledge - Hilton Carter

Photograph taken from The Propagation Handbook by Hilton Carter (CICO Books, £25).

Subscribe to On The Ledge via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Player FM, Podchaser and YouTube.

Want to support On The Ledge by joining my Patreon to unlock exclusive content, making a one-off donation or leaving a review? Find out more here.

Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:16] Jane Perrone Hello and welcome to the second edition of Late Night On The Ledge. And this week's guest is the inimitable Hilton Carter.

[0:28] Jane Perrone Thanks for all your fantastic feedback about Episode 300. So glad you enjoyed it. It was a blast and lots of great feedback about the video aspect of the show. Unfortunately, that's not something I'm going to be able to do every week, but there will be another Late Night On The Ledge coming up, which is a video version at the end of August. So look out for that and do go and subscribe to my YouTube.

[1:01] Jane Perrone Now, if this is your first Late Night On The Ledge episode, let me explain. Usually On The Ledge is a swear-free show but my show's just turned 300 and I figure that it's time to have a little bit of a break from the norm and that's where Late Night On The Ledge comes in. Think about a late night chat show, fascinating guests, chat, gossip, fun and maybe the odd bit of bad language. So if you have children listening whose ears are sensitive, or indeed if your ears are sensitive to swearing, then maybe go and pick another episode to listen to. Let's face it there's plenty there more than 250 of them. That said let's get on with today's show Hilton Carter the Baltimore, USA based plant and interior stylist, author, and artist he's the host of podcast Inside Hilton's Head and the author of quite a few books including Wild At Home, Wild Interiors, Wild Creations, Living Wild, and his latest book, The Propagation Handbook. And in this episode, we cover lots of ground. We talk about his plant journey, his books, his life, and pretty much everything in between. So settle back, relax, and have a listen to this wonderful chat, which took place while Hilton was at his London publisher's office, sitting round the table, shooting the breeze with Hilton.

[2:34] Music.

[2:41] Jane Perrone Hilton Carter. A lot's happened since we last met.

[2:44] Hilton Carter Yes, yes, it's been five years.

[2:47] Jane Perrone I mean, a child for you, books, a pandemic no less.

[2:53] Hilton Carter A pandemic no less. Yeah, two Target collections.

[2:58] Jane Perrone Two Target collections.

[2:59] Hilton Carter Yeah, for those who know Target.

[3:01] Jane Perrone Yeah, yeah. Or as we like to call it in the UK, Tar-jé.

[3:06] Hilton Carter I think a few snobby folks in the States call it Tar-jé as well.

[3:11] Jane Perrone Oh, I'm just messing with you. A lot's happened though, hasn't it?

[3:15] Hilton Carter It has.

[3:15] Jane Perrone We are in an amazing period of time and I want to get into this as we chat because I want to think about reflecting back to what we were talking about in 2019 and how things have changed.

[3:26] Hilton Carter Yep.

[3:26] Jane Perrone But we need to go first on the reason why you're in London, I guess, which is your new book. I'm so glad you've done this. It's about propagation.

[3:34] Hilton Carter Yes the propagation handbook. It's been out for the last two months and uh I'm here because I have an event at the Garden Museum to talk about it with the wonderful Alice Vincent which um is one of-

[3:50] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[3:50] Hilton Carter -your-

[3:50] Jane Perrone Fellow guest of the podcast.

[3:52] Hilton Carter Exact- that. I was gonna say she's a brit um I believe she's a brit yeah she's-

[3:58] Jane Perrone She is.

[3:58] Hilton Carter She's from here um and yeah and just to meet with my publishers because they're also here in London so um yes it's it's always a pleasure to come back to London I love being here but from what we were just talking about off-air is that I gotta get back for the Chelsea Flower Show is that what it's called?

[4:22] Jane Perrone The Chelsea flower show I am I hope I've planted a seed here.

[4:26] Hilton Carter Ooh okay.

[4:27] Jane Perrone To get you to the show next year I want to see you there next year among the houseplant studios experiencing the world's most famous flower show.

[4:39] Hilton Carter There is no way I am not at the Chelsea Flower Show in 2025.

[4:46] Jane Perrone I'm going to pull some, I'm going to get you, make sure you get some tickets, some press tickets, because you've got to, it's an amazing event.

[4:52] Hilton Carter If anyone is listening to this and you have anything to do with the Chelsea Flower Show, reach out to me. My email address is hilton@hiltoncarter.com. Whoever is out there listening, hit me up. I'm trying to make my way back, but I will be there for sure.

[5:09] Jane Perrone But tell me about the Propagation book because-

[5:12] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[5:12] Jane Perrone -what led you – you've obviously done these very sort of very stylish, very cool houseplant books. I think Propagation, I wonder whether it's like a little bit more – I mean, I love Propagation. It's my abs-

[5:25] Hilton Carter We all do.

[5:26] Jane Perrone But why did you choose to go down that route for this new book?

[5:30] Hilton Carter Jane, for me, it was literally the start of my, as I would say, journey. Many people would say plant journey as well. I think it's important to talk about the thing that not only helps you grow your plant collection, but helps you share that sort of love, that sort of passion for plants with someone. For me, it was a friend's mother that shared the initial process, like you said, who planted the seed. She saw that I was getting into plants, was very new, novice. And I was tending to a pothos at the time when she was at my house, living in New Orleans at the time. And-

[6:30] Hilton Carter I don't know why she decided to come up to me to tell me about the possibility of propagating this plant. But she did. She came over. She was a gardener. She didn't have many indoor plants. She lived in California, and they have means weather that they can have many plants outside. But she knew that you could propagate this pothos. And she said, 'hey, you know, if you take a cutting from this part of the plant, you put it in water, it'll grow roots and you can make more of these plants.' And I was just blown away by it. And I didn't understand it. I had never propagated before. I didn't know what she was talking about. But I thought I should try it. I'm getting into plants. Plants were, even in 2014, fairly expensive. I mean, nothing like they are now.

[7:21] Hilton Carter And I wanted to see what would happen and I saw those roots take shape and something clicked. I was excited. I saw that process happen and saw them grow more. And then I decided it was a perfect time to transport it into soil. And I'm trying to figure out the right soil, put it in the right pot, put it in the window and watch it unfurl new growth. And I'm tending and caring and all of those steps, mind you, I was unaware of what was happening to me, how I was changing who I was. And that process led me to be a bit more... Mindful and focused, I will say, in the other plants that I started to bring in. And it also made me feel like I had, now it was a pothos, so luckily it was an easy starter plant, right? But it made me feel like I was really good at this. I was like, 'shit, I can bring more plants in. Why not?'

[8:26] Jane Perrone It's a superpower. It feels like a superpower. Where you're like 'oh my gosh.'

[8:28] Hilton Carter It feels like a superpower.

[8:31] Jane Perrone And it makes you look at every plant in a different way, I think.

[8:34] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[8:34] Jane Perrone Like you're like looking at it going 'oh I can, what can I do with this? I wonder which parts of this will turn into a new plant?' Right.

[8:40] Hilton Carter For sure and I did that and I- I chopped I have a- I talk about my first book but I- my first plant was a fiddle leaf fig named Frank um Frank's still with me so I don't know why I said was um and after I had success with that pothos I looked at Frank and I was like 'you're next buddy. Let's go to town.' And I literally I mean like I'm still green I just thought you can cut it anywhere. I took like a knife out of the kitchen drawer and just started cutting anywhere on the plant. It took some time. That cut took some time. So it took so much time that I got a little bored or just like over it and just kind of broke the branch of it. I was like, this should be fine. Stuck it in water. I mean, a week later, all the leaves on that cutting fell off. Frank started to freak out. And I was like, I guess it takes a little bit more than just ripping a piece of a plant and putting it in water to obviously do the job. So it was just like, you know, like the process of, of tending to the propagation really got me excited. But I thought, and the reason why I wrote this book was.

[9:46] Hilton Carter It wasn't just the idea that I was able to propagate that plant and then I got curious to do this for other plants and then I brought all these plants in a little bit later. It was just that I thought about how much that initial sharing of knowledge changed who I was. It impacted me. It turned a light on for me that wasn't just like an 'aha moment'. It was more of a what the power of nurturing something else can bring to you that can affect you in so many other ways. This individual who shared how to cut this plant and make more of them just said it as like a throwaway statement. Like, 'hey, here's how you do this thing. Cool.'And then she just- you know went about her business.

[10:43] Hilton Carter She didn't know at that time that that would be something that would affect me so much, that it would change or push me into a whole 'nother path in life. I was dealing with a lot of issues I would say because I was focused on what I thought my dream career would be, that I had been focused on since school, which was to be a filmmaker, and I'm pushing and pushing towards this. Which I thought was this light at the tunnel and and whatever was going to jump in my path to stop me along this, I would have to push it to a side because I can only focus on this one thing. A lot of, when we've seen the light at the inside like the end of the tunnel obviously that means you're surrounded by darkness and I felt a lot of that stress that darkness that was that was on me, this weight of you got to get and reach this goal. And once I started to care for plants and bring plants into my life, a lot of that darkness started to dissipate and a bit more light was surrounding me in this path. I'm still headed towards this idea of what my dream job would be.

[12:00] Hilton Carter But it also started to become more of a thing that was changing who I was. The things that you do when you're tending to a plant are easily, I would say, talked about. Like, you know, you water a plant, you clean a plant, you give a plant light or you rotate a plant so it can get better light. But the things that, those small nuances that you think about when you're focused on a plant, when you're thinking about if a plant needs moisture, so you're checking the soil, whether you're using a moisture meter or using your finger or if you're someone who's uh who has been uh a plant nurturer for decades, I know a lady who knocks on the side of the pots to listen to the actual sound that's when she knows the plant needs to be watered. Like those things when you take all of that stuff seeing that a plant has uh changes in its colour and the way it moves like a leaf has curled up or it's fainted. And you can apply those things to the other things in your life, like the people that you care for or your pets or whatever it is. Those things start to brighten up everything in your world.

[13:18] Hilton Carter And that happened to me. This darkness that was surrounding me just started to go away. And I was like, man, maybe this is about the plants I have in my life. But I really wasn't thinking about it. I just started to see my relationships become more solid. My friendships became a bit more, I would say, stronger based on the fact that there was communication. And that communication was based on the fact that I could see small changes in individuals that were closer to me. That I could then verbalise and say, 'hey, I see that something's going on with you.' I would have never noticed those things before because I was so focused on what was, there in front of me and what I was trying to reach for and I thought when I was writing, started writing books I was like there has to be a moment where I write a book about propagating because it's not just about the power of making one plant, taking one plan and making more of it because that's what we have to share and many of us have done it, many, anytime I go on a tour, I mean anytime I go to a city or have an event and I say 'hey. How many of you here have propagated plants?' 90 to 95 percent of people will raise their hands. I know that there's someone else out there who is... I wouldn't say I was lost, but I was... I wasn't sure of myself. I wasn't happy.

[14:44] Hilton Carter Someone can share the process of propagating with them. They can give them the book. They can get the book themselves and say, hey, here's a cutting on my plant. And what the possibilities can be in that gift that can change them. And that's what I wanted. I wanted people to have a gift that can keep on giving. Because that's what it does. You take a cutting from a plant. It becomes a more mature plant. You take a cutting from that, maybe you give it to someone else and that plant let's say is your plant Jane, it makes its way into all these different homes and it's Jane number 17. You know.

[15:22] Jane Perrone Yeah yeah absolutely. I think that's, it is very exciting and the only thing I find though is Idon't know whether your wife and your daughter have quite as much excitement. What really annoys me is when like for example my Easter cactus has just flowered and I'm like 'oh my god! That looks amazing! Oh my god look at that, everybody look at that!' And they're just like... they don't- have they even no- like it's a bright, it's bright red, it's covered in bright red flowers.

[15:52] Hilton Carter Your family they're just like-

[15:54] Jane Perrone -they're just-

[15:54] Hilton Carter -who cares?

[15:55] Jane Perrone Like they haven't- I- and I'm just like 'guys! Guys!'

[16:00] Hilton Carter Look at this.

[16:01] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[16:02] Hilton Carter Look- look what I've done yeah I-

[16:04] Jane Perrone I really want- I really want that recognition. I guess that's why I started a podcast, really, so I can get other people. But, I mean, now, obviously, since we last spoke, you have had a child. I believe you've got another one-

[16:15] Hilton Carter I do.

[16:15] Jane Perrone -on the way. Have you got another one on the way?

[16:16] Hilton Carter As we make this podcast, I have a daughter that is due in three weeks.

[16:21] Jane Perrone Oh, my gosh.

[16:22] Hilton Carter So I'll have two daughters. Yeah, so by the time this podcast probably comes out, maybe my second child will already be into the world. But, yeah, I mean, I've been propagating plants and propagating humans. I mean that's-I won't be doing that anymore. My wife's like, 'no more,' but they don't have the same excitement behind seeing new growth or plants flowering.

[16:49] Jane PerroneI bet it's going in though.

[16:51] Hilton Carter For sure.

[16:51] Jane Perrone I mean, I went to, my children are now 17 and 14, I went to the garden centre with them. It was supposed to be, I mean, my very long-suffering husband. We were meant to be going to this cheese place on Father's Day for my husband, who loves cheese, to have like a cheese fest, to get lots of cheese, buy lots of cheese. And it just so happened that we combined that with a trip to the nursery.

[17:14] Hilton Carter Just so happened, huh? Okay.

[17:16] Jane Perrone Because I needed to pick up some bark for the- herb garden.

[17:19] Hilton Carter You needed, Jane. This was supposed to be about your husband's day, your father's day. You were like, 'can I get at least a few hours of your day, please, sir?'

[17:26] Jane Perrone we couldn't find the cheese place. We ended up in the nursery. And I-

[17:31] Hilton Carter This is sounding terrible for him.

[17:35] Jane Perrone Spoiler alert, we did get to the cheese place.

[17:37] Hilton Carter Okay. All good.

[17:37] Jane Perrone It was all good at the end. It was all good at the end, but it was a bit fraught at the beginning. Then we went to the nursery, and both my children were walking around, and they were both getting really excited about plants. My daughter ended up buying a load of plants for the garden. This was an outdoor nursery, not an indoor one. So she ended up buying a load of plants which she's now planted in the garden and is looking after. My son really wanted- my- my chilli plants had been eaten by slugs, it's been a bad year for slugs in this country, um so we bought another chilli plant and my son was like yeah this is I think they're getting- so it's taken a long time but they are now getting excited about plants which was amazing.

[18:13] Hilton Carter That's awesome.

[18:13] Jane Perrone That was really exciting but yeah it's taken a while. But I think it goes in via osmosis you know your daughter will, you know she'll probably have more plant knowledge than some of her peers just because of being around you.

[18:25] Hilton Carter You would think that would be the case and I mean that's the hope. I mean honestly I'm never gonna and I think my wife is in the same boat as I am uh as far as just like what sort of career or things that we push on her. My wife's a dentist so um we think what we're gonna do is share our passion, like we said, and how excited we are for the things that we get to do for work. But my daughter will watch me water a plant. She wants to jump in and help. But she doesn't really walk around the house like looking at the plant. She just sees it as a part of our home. She has noted when we go to other places, homes, like where's all the plants? Like where's their plants? So I do think she'll have a better knowledge of what makes a interior space, feel warm and inviting and that is my ultimate goal is to teach her an eye for, style and design in a space but I think. And I'm- just based off of what I've seen so far, she's only almost three. They find their way at a certain point too. Whatever you're excited about, they'll find their way. And if they're not excited about it, they'll move on and then maybe they come back. But I don't have a dream that my daughter or my daughters fall in line with what I do or what my wife does.

[19:54] Jane Perrone No that's-

[19:54] Hilton Carter I just want them to find the happiness. That's it like, that's the thing like, all the things like the book- the book. The first book that we were Wild At Home that we did our first podcast about. None of that could have come and I would still be so happy right now because when it did happen I was like 'what? You want me to write a book? That sounds awesome.' But I've- because I was already sharing that knowledge and having that fun. I feel like that's the thing that I would hope my kids tap into is just that whatever is going to make them, that fills their soul where every day they're just like I'm so glad I'm in this space regardless of the sorts of financial gains that can come from it - not saying that financial gains are a bad thing because I do think I think that the more financially stable you are, the more opportunities you're able to provide-

[20:57] Jane Perrone Sure

[20:57] Hilton Carter -those around you. But it's the happiness first. It has to be.

[21:04] Jane Perrone Absolutely.

[21:04] Hilton Carter If you seek it- If you seek it all the other things will fall into place.

[21:09] Music.

[21:20] Jane Perrone And also, I think the other thing that I get from plants is, and this ties into propagation, is like resilience in that things go wrong. Now, I'm not going to lie. I've had a rough year with my plants this year. I have had a lot of problems. And like you know, you've had plants for a long time like me. And you know there's a difference between having a load of plants that you've bought in the last year compared to having plants that you've had for a decade plus.

[21:47] Hilton Carter For sure.

[21:47] Jane Perrone Like that's a really different space that you're in.

[21:50] Hilton Carter For sure.

[21:50] Jane Perrone And I've had a lot of problems. But what it's taught me, you know, dealing with pest problems and, you know, plants getting too big, is that the great thing about plants is you can chop them up.

[22:02] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[22:02] Jane Perrone So, you know, I have a beautiful, I had a beautiful fern-leaf cactus that was getting enormous. And then it just started looking really, really miserable. Anyway, long story short, I have a root mealybug issue in my collection. So I've just taken cutting- I've just taken huge chunks of this thing, I also discovered it had some scale, but I'm just like 'it's okay, this is okay, this is gonna be fine.' There is a root ball now on the compost heap but this part goes on like I have this plant material-

[22:34] Hilton Carter For sure. Yeah.

[22:34] Jane Perrone It's really resilient. So I think that's hopefully something we can teach our kids as well through plants.

[22:39] Hilton Carter Yeah I think... I try and I- Well, I had that conversation with my daughter about a year ago, and she was very handsy on- with the plants as far as just like, hey, here's a plant. And then she would grab a branch and then pull, or a leaf and pull. And I would go, well, you know, like, I like when the leaves are attached or this part of the vine is attached. But, you know, what we can do is we can take that and we can put it in water or we can put it in this and let's watch as it grows, obviously at that point or that age she was kind of just like 'what are we talking about?' and she already moved on to something else but I do think that um as anyone listening should know, like we're all, Jane, you and I, listeners are all in the same boat um we're gonna deal with pests you know. We signed a contract and you know like most contracts, anyone who has uh downloaded an app or has a smartphone you know or anything that updates and that update comes and there's all this writing. And we all scroll as fast as possible to get to the bottom and hit that check mark. All that stuff we did not read. We were just like, fine, just get me to the, and you hit it, you're like, thank you, now I can get back to doing the thing that I like to do.

[23:58] Hilton Carter You know, like in the fine print of having houseplants it did say 'you are deciding to bring pests into your home' and we overlooked that part but um yeah you just deal with it and you and you keep going and if there are issues obviously like the best thing and if you talk people like that obviously the idea that the best uh time to propagate is going to be during spring and summer where your plants are actively pushing out new growth. Yeah prune them back take those those those cuttings make more plants for yourself or honestly give give give uh you know when you can um so that it is going to encourage that mother plant to grow more. But you're also encouraging others to become a part of your community. I mean like-

[24:45] Jane Perrone People are really scared of cutting things back though.

[24:47] Hilton Carter Of course they are.

[24:48] Jane Perrone People like- I've got- I've seen people, a lot of people like' oh my um my monstera's reached the ceiling so I'm selling it now, because I-'

[24:55] Hilton Carter It looks so ridiculous.

[24:56] Jane Perrone And you're just like...

[24:58] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[24:58] Jane Perrone You don't have to do that.

[25:00] Hilton Carter You don't.

[25:00] Jane Perrone Like you can keep cutting it back and it'll be fine and people are really scared of that.

[25:05] Hilton Carter Of course they are I mean and it makes sense uh there's, you- there's so many things that you do to a plant and you're like 'I just moved you and all of a sudden you're freaking-' You know so you're not like 'if I chop this plant up, it's going to just suffer and die. I would rather give it away and then start new.' So I hope in the book, and I tried my best to explain, like, you don't have to be fearful of it. Now, again, we all know this. Everything isn't one-to-one, right? Like, just 'cause someone tells you that 'this is the perfect time to repot a plant.' 'This is the perfect way to take a cutting.' 'This is the perfect type of light for a plant.' You could live wherever you live and I'm telling you the best direction, more light for your plant would be a south facing window and you have a south facing window but there's a massive tree right there an evergreen right next to that south facing window which now you have zero light and you're like 'you said south facing light what- what do you mean?' And now your plant is dead because you've got this wonderful plant that needs a lot of light. The same thing goes into that.

[26:16] Hilton Carter It's just like, hey, you could chop it, cut it back. It's not always guaranteed that that plant is going to survive, of course. But I do think that removing that fear that people should feel a bit more comfortable taking cuttings, especially during spring and summer, taking cuttings, trimming their plants back, helps encourage new growth. But it also gives them the opportunity to, again, maybe move that plant or that new cutting to another part of their home. Or they can take that cutting and then sell it instead of selling the whole plant. Because at least you have the mother plant there. You talk about the idea of creating these bonds with plants. For me, I think that's such an important thing. It also stresses me out a lot more when I have those deep bonds with these plants. Like Frank and I are just like every day, I'm like, 'just hold on, man. Like why are you having such a hard time right now?' And then we'll get back on board. I'm like, 'thank you.'

[27:15] Hilton Carter Nothing's changed. I'm doing the same thing. What is your issue? You know and then you'll, you'll have these wants to uh gift someone a part of one of your favourite plants one of your uh family uh plants and you're like 'I don't know if I want to cut them because I'm afraid it'll happen.' It happens to me too like it's I- I and I talk about this on uh on tours it's like people are like 'well have you propagated Frank since you've had that accident?' And I was like, well, last year I finally got enough, I guess, I got the nerve to go and take a cutting from him. Because I was like, 'look, dude. I've done this plenty of times with fiddle leaf figs. I got this down. Trust me. I can take a cutting from you and you'll be fine.' So it did take me 10 years to work up the nerve to do it. And I finally did it. So I understand people being stressed, nervous about it. But at a certain point, you have to understand that, like you said, plants are resilient just like we are. And they'll bounce back. They'll come back from whatever damage you might do especially when you, I mean like Frank, I mean I took a huge cutting from him that first uh time I had to the the thought that I should propagate him. He freaked he freaked out for a second but he bounced back and that's just how it works.

[28:46] Jane Perrone Yeah, yeah because oftentimes I see- there's one Facebook group which is I can't think what it is now. There's one Facebook group where there's that like they're really varying in the level like the general level of expertise is really varying in these groups, isn't it? And this is one where people are generally not, I would say, houseplant- You know, they don't have many houseplants. They might just have a fiddle leaf fig. And I'm always seeing like things popping up on my feed. And it'll be a fiddle leaf fig. And it's like going across the ceiling. And they're so terrified of cutting it back. It's like, for God's sake, please cut that thing. It's ridiculous. Why have you got it going across the ceiling? It's just... I mean you know, you know I- I that's that for me is is one of those things where you want to just get people and go 'please let me come and take a-' I mean I'm not a great - as I think we've talked about before - I'm not a great fan of the fiddle leaf fig personally um but um I just want people to grow them, if they're gonna if you're gonna have one right make it look the best it could look make it look great um so yeah.

[29:51] Hilton Carter Or make it look best for...for you. I think it's difficult to, to have someone bring a plant from a plant shop into their home and then judge the plant on what its path is in their space.

[30:10] Jane Perrone Yeah, absolutely.

[30:11] Hilton Carter Because I've seen some very, very gnarly looking plants that were so gnarly, I couldn't even tell what type of plant it was. Like I saw a ZZ plant once and I was like, 'what kind of plant is this?' They were like, 'it's a ZZ plant.' And I was like, 'it can't be.' Because I've never seen a ZZ plant grow like this. But I guess because it's in such terrible, terrible, like, in terrible condition.

[30:37] Jane Perrone That's impressive.

[30:37] Hilton Carter That you made a plant that is just really odd, but kind of cool.

[30:43] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[30:43] Hilton Carter It's perfect for your space. It's still alive. But it's not that-

[30:48] Jane Perrone How do you get a ZZ plant and not thrive?

[30:50] Hilton Carter Oh, my God. I mean, I was blown away. But it's just like I'm impressed with what it looks like and what it, just to me it was just like it's very interesting that that's what you did and you have for yourself as that plant and that's kind of how I got into the space where I'm writing this new book it's just like um. I guess I talked about the new book. I didn't know that I was going to talk about this but we're talking about it we're on it right now um but it's just like the idea of um it's about my favourite, my favourite hundred plants, my top hundred plants.

[31:21] Jane Perrone So this is the next book?

[31:22] Hilton Carter This is the next book.

[31:23] Jane Perrone Ah, okay. Is this an exclusive? Are we getting an exclusive here? Oh my gosh.

[31:25] Hilton Carter You are. You are. I haven't talked about this on a podcast yet.

[31:29] Jane Perrone Okay.

[31:29] Hilton Carter I haven't even talked about it on my own podcast. But yeah, it's called Hilton's Hundred. And I don't know when it's going to come out because it takes me a long time to talk about a hundred plants. But the idea of it is your fiddle leaf fig. You're like a hate fiddle leaf fig. Whatever your plant is that we have in common, we have the same plant. Isn't necessarily going to look exactly the same. Your care process isn't going to be exactly the same as mine but there's some ties that should come together, we should go 'yeah we both agree that this is going to be the best way to uh make sure that this plant thrives.' Right? But the look of it can be completely different I saw um I had such a love for Kew gardens and I'm I'm at I was at The Kew this morning. You guys call it The Kew?

[32:20] Jane Perrone Kew.

[32:21] Hilton Carter You just call it Kew?

[32:22] Jane Perrone No 'the', just 'Kew'. At Kew.

[32:23] Hilton Carter Those of my friends listening who are from Baltimore, they're like, yeah, 'The Kew.' Because we put 'The' or an 'S' on everything.

[32:33] Jane Perrone Okay. Okay.

[32:34] Hilton Carter On everything.

[32:34] Jane Perrone It's very confusing here because there are things that you have to add 'The' to and there are things that you definitely don't add 'The' to. Like there's certain hospitals and things where you just definitely add the 'The'.

[32:44] Hilton Carter Oh, yeah?

[32:45] Jane Perrone And if you don't it's very- I mean the English language is a nightmare isn't it? But anyway yeah.

[32:49] Hilton Carter Well, well I was at Kew.

[32:51] Hilton Carter You can say 'The Kew' it's fine.

[32:52] Hilton Carter No no it's fine I was at Kew. I was at, I took the tube to Kew. Okay I got that right. I took uh and I'm looking at uh their fiddles, I looked at a fiddle and I was just like the way this fiddle is growing is just insane uh feels very crowded amongst all these other tropicals here but there's something so perfect about it. I love the idea of what we all have a plant like I was talking about that person that had the ZZ plant. She had a ZZ plant, I have a ZZ plant, but her ZZ plant was unique to her, in her home. My ZZ plant is different than many others but at the same time it's, it's, it's, special in its own right in my space so I think talking about how to- How to guide people in the best way to care for plants or how their plants should look is just all of... I guess the same as beauty is in the eye of the beholder because your version of a ugly fiddle leaf fig might be someone's like 'wow that-' because I'm thinking about like I um I just, I just photographed someone's um Norfolk pine and I thought the way they pruned this back or the way it's lost leaves, lost mature growth, makes it look like a bonsai tree. And it's so beautiful. Like, it's so different. It's so- I'm just like, that to me is special. Now, that person might think, well, I'm really, I'm unhappy with the way it looks because it had all this wonderful growth at the bottom and now it just has this. And I'm just like, that thing is so amazing.

[34:53] Jane Perrone I'm gonna- I'm gonna give you a theory here.

[34:55] Hilton Carter Go for it.

[34:55] Jane Perrone I'm gonna give you a theory. I have an idea that- About houseplants, you know, because obviously there's like your hundred there is a, group of plants within the millions of plant species in the world that we grow as houseplants and there, it's a big group, but it's relative to the number of plants in general it's relatively small and I do think that the reason why these plants have been selected is because genetically they have evolved to be able to cope with different environments.

[35:32] Hilton Carter Oh for sure.

[35:33] Jane Perrone Right? So I think this is why, why we can do this with our plants because the plants that have been that have been selected over the years as houseplants are ones that do just say 'oh okay you're gonna cut me back.' 'Oh okay you gonna put me in a tiny pot, you're gonna restrict my roots, you're gonna cut my roots, you're gonna bonsai me.' They can cope with that and I think that's kind of the reason why um and that's it is fascinating to think about that isn't it? Because as you say somebody could be growing uh you know a pothos that they've got like I don't- there's a pothos I don't know if there's one at Kew but at Wisley Gardens there's a pothos which has achieved its potential in terms of mature leaves and you know what those leaves go like when they get this long they're massive and then you've got somebody in their house growing one that's you know, like one stem and a little tiny leaf because they're giving it very different conditions. And that's amazing that those two plants, they're the same species.

[36:31] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[36:31] Jane Perrone But they're doing something completely different. They might be the same age, and yet the growth is totally different. That's so cool, isn't it?

[36:38] Hilton Carter Yes. I think that's the thing. It's like, you know, I mean, like we all know the potential that a plant can have when it's given the right environment and care. Most of, I mean, the houseplants are all just regular tropical plants that would rather be outside.

[36:52] Jane Perrone But how are you picking your 100 though? How-

[36:54] Hilton Carter Based off of the plants that I typically, that I love, that I've either cared for myself and had my collection, or ones that I love and just wish I could care for them, but I can't based off the fact that I don't have the right environment for them. Um so um yeah it's it's it's been it's been fun trying to select the, my favourite. Some made it on the list and then were removed from the list because other ones came into the list. I was like oh yeah actually that was actually one of my favourites because I've- I've worked with it and I've killed it so many times but it's still my favourite plant.

[37:31] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[37:31] Hilton Carter You know?

[37:32] Jane Perrone Can you give us a little can you give us a you know any sort of sneak previews? Have you got anything in there that's totally like what I would consider to be a very beautiful plant but, like you, killed many times never going to be in my collection permanently uh Medinilla magnifica. Do you know what I'm talking about? That one with the big pink-

[37:51] Hilton Carter Yep.

[37:52] Jane Perrone I've got a thing for that every time I see it I'm like 'wow I've got to have that.' But oh my word that plant is just-

[38:00] Hilton Carter Drives you crazy.

[38:00] Jane Perrone It's a no it's got to be, like I imagine if you had like a a beautiful conservatory like a Victorian conservatory full of orchids you could probably pull it off but in my house no not going to work not going to happen. I would love to you know like say that I could raise that plant but that's not going to be on my list just because I think it's I just-

[38:19] Hilton Carter Wait why would it be- it's still your favourite. So okay I will say there are plants that are, my favourites that I have because I have guests also featured in the book.

[38:28] Jane Perrone Okay.

[38:29] Hilton Carter And it's one- their plants- So I have I have a feature in the book that's the fiddle leaf fig but I have a fiddle leaf fig, Frank. He's my he's my-

[38:37] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[38:38] Hilton Carter What-I will say the fiddle leaf fig is one of my favourite, top favourite plants but the- I featured a person who has a fiddle leaf fig. So we're gonna talk about her process of her fiddle leaf fig and their backstory etc etc. So it doesn't, it's not necessarily all the plants that I don't have I'm giving the guests or all these other things but it's more so of a I want to have a more balanced idea of... The challenges some people might have. I mean, I've talked so much about my fiddle leaf figs. I wanted someone else to talk about theirs. But I do think there are particular plants that even if I've struggled with them, they're still going to be my favorite because they're great. Like, I've- and I've said in a rant before, but fuck Calathea. You know what I mean?

[39:34] Jane Perrone Well, I wanted to ask you. I was going to say you're known for your rants. Let's go. Let's go with a rant.

[39:39] Hilton Carter Oh you want a rant?

[39:40] Jane Perrone I want a rant. I mean, I'm- I'm hearing you.

[39:43] Hilton Carter No, I just think, I mean, they're terrible as far as wanting to take the ride with you and succeed in the best life possible. I think their only goal is to look great at plant shops and then to look terrible in your own-

[40:02] Jane Perrone How long have you managed to keep one of those? I mean, I probably managed like two or three years and then spider mites.

[40:09] Hilton Carter I mean, those are going to be, I mean, I've had, I've had, uh, what have I had for the longest so far? I've had a rattlesnake for the past...three or four years that has been doing great.

[40:31] Jane Perrone Yeah, but you know you said that now.

[40:33] Hilton Carter Yeah, I said it. I talked about it. I mentioned it. And I was like, there it is. How dare you? I'm done. But, yeah, I mean, it's a constant, hey, I'm leaving town. Can you make sure this guy is, like, fully taken care of? Don't put- don't, put him over here. Don't do this. Do that. So much that I've started to align myself with philodendron, ficus, succulents, cacti, schefflera. I mean, like literally all the things that I know from my lifestyle that will remain when I return home. Or just won't ask too much of me. Especially now that I have a child, another on the way.

[41:23] Jane Perrone I was just going to say this this could be the tipping point. I mean-

[41:25] Hilton Carter Yes.

[41:26] Jane Perrone I've definitely been through this where you have the second child and then you're like suddenly there's just it's a different ball game you're like actually I haven't got time for your shit. Calathea you can just do one.

[41:35] Hilton Carter For- for sure I mean there's there's there's there's there was some that hit that moment when I had the first one you know. Like I'm just like I know that I'm not gonna have the time to care for you as you need so you're gonna have to go elsewhere I mean I I took- got rid of 80% of my cacti because it was like you're you're just an accident waiting to bite my child so I'm gonna, I'm gonna remove my remove you from the home and um I'm gonna say our peaceful goodbyes and we'll go we'll go our separate ways but and obviously some of those plants I've had- I had a cutting um that I got from New Orleans in that collection and um like in the start of my journey there and... It just had to happen because it knew it was going to hurt my child.

[42:22] Hilton Carter But I do think that there are plenty of plants that are just jerks, right? They're just jerks and difficult to care for. But when someone put a lie detector test or asked me to do a lie detector and they asked about what I think the plants for newbies should be, like if you're going to give a person that has no idea how to care for plants a plant, what one of those plants should be, I would not go to the standard like ZZ, snake, dieffenbachia, um pothos, all of that in that direction. I would go with maybe a calathea, I would go with um a fern, I would go with a um anthurium. Something that is going to give them at least some chance to understand like look, you have to be on top of this plant to care for it. You give someone a snake plant like they, there's they- that bond that thing that I got excited about that made me want to bring more plants in, they're going to miss that because they don't have to really tend to the plant. And it's just going to be there. And they'll go, oh, I'll give it water whenever I guess it might need water in the three or four weeks and I'll go about my business.

[43:34] Hilton Carter You give someone a calathea, they're like, I know I've heard so much about this plant. They see it changing. They see it curl up all of a sudden. You're just like, you're in it and you're trying to work those things out. It at least puts them in the position to do the thing right. If you're someone who's given a self-driving car for the first time you're probably going to suck once you have to jump into a car and really uh do the work you know. You're giving someone a uh stick shift car and only the craziest I've seen people drive was in Germany and I was just like how fast are people driving here. Like what is happening? This is nuts. Like that's what you're doing when you give a newbie a um I think a calathea because they're just like all right I gotta get in and they have to learn they go for it. So I just think it's it's they're terrible plants, beautiful plants.

[44:33] Jane Perrone That's the thing they are just so... You can see- like they're in the big box store and you're just looking at them going oh my god these are amazing. I yeah I totally understand what you're saying I understand what you're saying about the difficulty. I guess it everyone's different though like if you've only got that one plant like if that's your one plant and you you're dedicated to it and you're a newbie like you're going to be. You're going to be examining it every day, like coming back to it. Like my daughter with her new plants, she is like this morning, she said, one of them's got a drooping flower. I'm like, it's going to be okay. But, you know, yeah, they are a challenge.

[45:10] Hilton Carter That same plants make you happy, that's part, like they do, but they can make you sad and stressed. And if you can eliminate that from your life, why not? Why bring something into your world that is going to stress you out? Because you know it's going to happen, it's like a guarantee at some point, at some point when you have this plant you are going to be stressed.

[45:36] Jane Perrone Yeah you're going to be looking at those leaves and suddenly see that curling and that's all those little marks of the red spider mite and 'you bastard.'

[45:44] Hilton Carter There it is there it is.

[45:47] Jane Perrone I mean all the swears come out then right because-

[45:49] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[45:49] Jane Perrone -it's it's, infuriating and you can then you know you've got to set yourself up with like a major routine of cleaning that plant.

[45:58] Hilton Carter For sure. For sure.

[45:58] Jane Perrone -and it's... I mean that's why Igo for the haircut you know I'm just going to literally take all the growth off it and just hope for the best.

[46:05] Hilton Carter I want, I'm gonna ask this elsewhere probably, I want everyone who when they decide to go purchase one of these plants calatheas, anthuriums, alocasias, like whenever they go- they go to purchase one I want them when they're purchasing to take a photo of it and then I want them to take a photo of it like a month and a half later because none- I promise you none of those plants look as good as they did when they first bought it as they probably do or like probably what they look like now. They all change and they get to all this stuff that's going on with them and it's it's that first initial it's like that um love at first sight thing and then you're just like 'what did I get myself into?'

[46:50] Jane Perrone And when it's one like crinkly leaf remaining it's like- and the funny thing is, I don't know about you but I find people are divided into two camps - my listeners anyway - there's uh or people in general there's the dead stick brigade. So you get the email saying 'Jane my plant's looking a bit poorly I wonder if you can help?' And you're like it's a dead stick. I mean really like if it's for a rhizome it might come back but probably not or you get the people like the calathea buyers they've just got it home, 'oh my god there's a tiny mark on one of the leaves what what am I doing wrong?' It's like you just...

[47:28] Hilton Carter Yeah calm down. It'll be fine.

[47:29] Jane Perrone Calm yourself it's fine, there's very little in between those two camps really.

[47:35] Hilton Carter Of course of course.

[47:36] Jane Perrone And I admire the people who are the dead stick brigade because they always have hope like they- hope springs eternal in those people.

[47:41] Hilton Carter Yes yes and what I love about them is just like they haven't given up but I also go-

[47:49] Jane Perrone Give up.

[47:49] Hilton Carter Yeah I'm like I don't know what you can learn now that will help. Because if you haven't figured it out up to this point, you might not never really figure it out. So maybe you need to move in a different direction like to help you have something that can live in your space.

[48:10] Music.

[48:21] Jane Perrone Let's talk about TV now.

[48:22] Hilton Carter Sure.

[48:23] Jane Perrone This has been a rant of mine for a long time like how the heck are there shows about like weird growths and pimple popping, like I don't know if they're in America-

[48:34] Hilton Carter Hold on.

[48:34] Jane Perrone But there's a show-

[48:35] Hilton Carter Tell me about the show I have no idea what you're talking about.

[48:38] Jane Perrone There's a show called Dr Pimple Popper.

[48:40] Hilton Carter Gross.

[48:40] Jane Perrone Have you come across this?

[48:40] Hilton Carter I've never heard of this.

[48:42] Jane Perrone An it's this- I mean like legitimate career she's a dermatologist or something but it's all these people who come in with really horrendous like issues.

[48:49] Hilton Carter Okay.

[48:50] Jane Perrone You know, like some vile abscess. And it's the worst channel to accidentally flip onto when you're, you know, you're just having a bit of a TV dinner or whatever. No, you do not want-

[49:02] Hilton Carter I'm sorry. I am so. What are you talking about? I do. I do know the people who are weirdly excited to pop someone's pimple.

[49:13] Jane Perrone Yeah well there's a whole TV show centered on it.

[49:14] Hilton Carter I don't know if they would be excited to watch that process.

[49:17] Jane Perrone There's another one which is feet. There's another couple of people who are like podiatrists, a lovely couple who are podiatrists I mean I don't watch these shows but you end up flicking past them on the TV right and it's like somebody's got some terrible foot condition like foot fungus or something their whole foot's like oh man. Anyway how come, this is my question like I'm not denying those shows should exist that's fine, they obviously have an audience. But how come there's shows like that, there's shows on like, the other shows that are popular here are there's Aussie Gold Hunters, Aussie Opal Hunters, Aussie Lobster Hunters all these kind of shows.

[49:54] Hilton Carter Okay.

[49:54] Jane Perrone Like that seems quite niche to me. How have we got to 2024 and there aren't any shows about houseplants? Now this is where your new show comes in because this is filling the gap.

[50:04] Hilton Carter I'm trying to fill in the gap, I mean I've been trying to fill in this gap for a while now um and I think there is definitely a need for it. I don't know. Everyone's been, and it's funny because it's the question I've gotten since 2017. How long is this fad going to stay? Right. Like and you've seen a lot- and I don't know if it's been happening here in the UK, but many of the plant shops that open over the pandemic have closed their doors. Right. So I'm not saying that that is an example of the fad, I'm throwing up air quotes, fading. But I don't, I don't, I see, I understand the thought process behind it. Like, I don't know if there'll be an audience for it, but there's been such a shift in how we all see nature and the idea of bringing the natural world into our homes that I feel like there is a space for an interior plant show. I mean, there's so many gardening shows here in the UK.

[51:09] Hilton Carter Um I feel like if it, if it was going to start anywhere it would start here um but I'm fortunate enough that hopefully enough viewers in the states because I'm not sure if it'll cross... you guys don't get HBO? I'm not sure.

[51:27] Jane Perrone Yeah we- yeah we should, it should be here.

[51:27] Hilton Carter Okay so maybe you'll get it it's so yeah so um if people, if people get the show and they're able to stream it it's on HBO- it's on MAX I guess and um Discovery+ and they stream it it's called Planterior with Hilton Carter. And my whole thing is I go into a space and I try to help a client bring the outdoors in. And it's not necessarily a, a must that it has to be a living plant. It doesn't have to be plant at all, but what it is, is about providing nature into a space. So if it's, uh, allowing more light to come into a space, if it's, uh, we're in an office where there's no plants inside of this office right, at this very moment, but there are massive windows right behind you, Jane, and all I see is green. That in itself is allowing the outside in. That's what the show's about. If they had carpet like we see here in their homes, we would then say, hey, if you were trying to bring a natural element that could tie this space into let's say, natural environment, maybe we rip up the carpet and we put down wood flooring.

[52:37] Hilton Carter Let's think about what your background is or what places you visited in the world that made you feel, um like you were at peace. What are those places? What is that thing? What's that colour? What- all those things and we apply those things to the space, so it's changing the colour of walls, it's uh flooring, it's windows, it's um uh textures maybe with the fabric that the new couch is gonna have or the coffee table or the planters, what material they made out of? And then at the end of the day obviously I'm gonna throw in a plant or two or maybe a hundred because someone's like 'hey I really want a living wall to be in my space' or 'I really saw like a idea of greenery just like on like in this hallway.' I'm like well we could do a living wall here maybe that works. But the only way we do that if they have provided enough light and you have nothing above this hallway, maybe we put in the skylight and we flood it with light. So now instead of it being a dark hallway it's flooded with light, light is coming in but also now you have this green path that's also in your space. So it's it's a it's the best for me.

[53:52] Hilton Carter It's the best of both of my loves in life which is interior styling and plant styling combined and um I put it into a show. So there's one pilot episode right now, if people watch the pilot they'll give me more episodes to make um. It's through Magnolia Network too so um I've worked with them before I have some plants uh it's called a I have a a workshop that is on their network which you can probably stream on MAX as well which is a workshop to work- a guide to houseplants. How to care for certain houseplants. So yeah it's it's it's been a long time coming, I've been been working on I've been I've been reached out to since the first book has come out about um making the show but I've been pushing back at every every chance I I can get because I wanted to make the show that I wanted to make. Not someone's someone else's idea of what I would fit into and I've gotten a lot of those options thrown at me like 'you should be in this sort of show.' Like 'you can do this show.' Like we have, they were production company, 'we have this idea you are this guy and then we have these other guys to help you.' I'm like no that's not, that's not for me, I want to do something that's more in line with what I love to do and over the last... man two years my partner and I, Brandon been working on getting this thing out there and finally the pilot which I mean we worked on this pilot we started this pilot process and... What is it? 24? So the beginning of 23.

[55:41] Jane Perrone TV is, it strikes me that TV is really hard.

[55:44] Hilton Carter Yes.

[55:45] Jane Perrone Like it- it is the, and also I totally understand what you're saying about like people coming to you with ideas.

[55:52] Hilton Carter Yeah.

[55:53] Jane Perrone I mean, off air, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story off after this podcast, which I probably can't share, about somebody coming to me with an idea. I can't even go and tell you what it was about but it- you know when you just- your jaw drops and you just go, 'you actually think that's a good idea?' like... You know like really, I mean this wasn't for me to present or anything it was just they wanted my view on it and my view was that's a terrible idea but you know what I'm probably going to see it on TV in a year.

[56:28] Hilton Carter Exactly well maybe- you'd be the same one- You would have been the same person that would have said no to Dr. Pimple Popper or whatever that show was called. You're like, no, that is gross. No one's going to watch it. I mean, you know, sometimes I think like some of these TV execs, they've been in the business for such a long time. They understand what will sell or be viewed and what won't. So some like even even in my own show it's been you know you have to um you have to allow for there to be changes because I don't know the space like that like um the the thing is they want the show to also be successful. So you gotta allow a little bit of what um their knowledge is of the of the business uh to trickle in as well but I mean there's things that for me were just like, like no-goes, like there's certain things that I'm just like, I will never do a show that is like that or put me in a position that will put me out into the space in a certain way.

[57:28] Hilton Carter So it wasn't until I started working with Magnolia that I was just like, these people, at least I know from the individuals who I've worked with, they really care about the quality of the work but they also care about the people right. So they've always been like 'hey whenever you have a idea for your show you want your show let us know.' But we also have production companies that have ideas and they can probably put an idea in front of you and you can maybe jump onto that but um they've given me the grace and time to figure it out and when I did they were just like, let's make this happen. It just takes time to get that initial pilot going because, you know, when it comes to the show, like I have clients that we're working on and you have to find the right client, not just like a person that I'm going to work on their home, like I can do that, right? But they have to be right for TV. You know what I mean?

[58:28] Jane Perrone Yeah. And I think houseplants have been slightly done the dirty on in the TV world because-

[58:34] Hilton Carter Ooh done the dirty on.

[58:34] Jane Perrone -I watch a lot of these- I want- Is that an American-

[58:35] Hilton Carter I want to hear more of this.

[58:40] Jane Perrone Is that the right word? I don't know where that came from, that phrase. But anyway, houseplants have a disservice paid to them. On TV generally, I don't know if you, when you're watching TV, you're looking at the plants in the background or you watch an interiors show and they're going to like put something. I mean, it's usually a fiddle leaf fig let's not get it wrong. They're sticking it in like a lightless hallway. And you're just thinking like I know that this is just TV. It's like it's not reality.

[59:07] Hilton Carter But it's giving people false information. It was like 'oh, I saw it on TV. I could probably do that there, too.' Yeah, yeah, yeah that's that's not what you're gonna see on this show. Obviously, you know, I'm gonna see on the show but it... It's the same thing and when I wrote wild- Living Wild I said it in the book, I was- my goal and hope was that interior designers would use this book to help them stop cheating their clients because they're just pushing plants wherever they want when a person comes in and sees the space or they design their space-

[59:41] Jane Perrone Here here, have some calatheas.

[59:42] Hilton Carter Yeah- yeah and then-

[59:43] Jane Perrone Have this whole forest of calatheas-

[59:44] Hilton Carter Yeah and then they're like bye-bye and then like leave them with all these plants are going to die soon right. So-

[59:50] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[59:50] Hilton Carter -because they're not in the right spots. But I do think that, I do think the- the- there's a- there's some sort of shift where many of of us viewers are noticing um that and I think many- I just think that the idea of the typical like the typical person who's sitting at home they now have some knowledge of plants right. They might have one or two or their roommate has a whole collection, and they and they have tapped in a bit more. Like every friend of mine that was just like, what in the world are you doing? Like, what is, what is, what? Why do you have so many plants? Every single one of them now has plants. And always-

[1:00:43] Jane Perrone They come crawling back to you-

[1:00:45] Hilton Carter There it is.

[1:00:45] Jane Perrone -saying-

[1:00:46] Hilton Carter There it is.

[1:00:46] Jane Perrone -you were right. Isn't that a good feeling?

[1:00:48] Hilton Carter Yeah, yeah exactly. And they're excited about it. So you see that, that change. And I'm just like, and then they notice things. And they send me photos like whenever they'll see a plant that is in like a place where like, this can't survive here. Like what is what is this going on there? And so it's, I think that over time it's gonna take some time because again, I started working on this pilot a year and a half ago. So the pilot was shot... nine months- was- was started to be filmed nine months ago so there's certain things, information, that could have been changed and people are just like if I was going to do this now I wouldn't have put that fiddle leaf fig in the dark corner. But yeah so I do I do think uh those things are changing but yeah it's always a- I mean for us it's... I'm always paying attention to the plants in the room on every single show.

[1:01:42] Jane Perrone Yeah.

[1:01:43] Hilton Carter I'm like whoa there's still- they are, you mentioned this, they are still pushing this fiddle leaf fig uh they are they are trying to make it, I mean it's probably because the one thing that uh there's available at many of the nurseries but um whenever I see a plant in a space I, I do go 'where's the window? Where's the light?'

[1:02:02] Jane Perrone And I love watching old films where like suddenly you'll be watching an old film, like a 50s movie, and suddenly they'll be, and you're like, 'wow, they were growing that back then?' And sometimes you're surprised. It's actually quite, I mean, you know, like not that my whole life revolves around plants or anything, but it's an education.

[1:02:21] Hilton Carter Of course. Of course.

[1:02:22] Jane Perrone Well, I'm glad to hear that you're filling this gap. I mean, I'm excited to see it. And I really hope that it turns into a- many series.

[1:02:31] Hilton Carter Thank you. I hope the same. People always ask like 'what's the goal? What's your goal?' I always go, I have no goal, I've never had a goal never thought I'd make one book, never thought I'd be here with five books made and working on a sixth book.

[1:02:48] Jane Perrone You must have an amazing work ethic. You- you've thrown out...a lot of books.

[1:02:50] Hilton Carter I love to work, let's not talk to my wife about it but I love, again like I said earlier in the podcast I've yet to... In this space, I've yet to clock into work. I've just been having fun. So when it's time to write a book, I find the process very enjoyable. I find the fact that I was here today shooting photos at Kew Gardens as a part of my job.

[1:03:29] Jane Perrone Yeah, you probably have to pinch yourself and think, this is work, right?

[1:03:33] Hilton Carter All day. Like I, and this is another thing I guess sometimes I don't take enough time to think about. My content producer, who's also my podcast producer, he's also my assistant photographer now, is a friend of mine from high school. Known him since high school. 20, 30 years of friendship. And I told him when we were younger, like when we were 20s, I was like, man, because he was a DJ, only a DJ. I was like, one day, my goal is that you'll- you'll like be my like- you'll be like my personal DJ. I'll be like, oh, man, I'm going to have a party. Come on over, Ryan, and just DJ and have fun with me. The fact that he and I, he travels with me now to help me with this. The fact that, and I mentioned this earlier, the idea of being able to share in this excitement. This fun that I'm having with the people that I care for is yes, I'm on the train with him, going to Kew Gardens and I'm just like, dude, this is supposed to be work. And look at us. We're just having fun, running around Kew Gardens. We're getting very hot. I mean, inside that Palm House, very hot. But we- it was, it's a dream.

[1:05:02] Hilton Carter So being able to write six books, possibly have this show happen, possibly do more collections with other brands, all that stuff is just, it is all play. So I tell folks to chase happiness first like the happiness wasn't like I'm gonna... And I think I see it happening on social, people who are chasing the want to do the thing that they kind of see me doing because they think that is going to provide them happiness. Nah it's, I want to say like it is, enjoy the thing that you're doing if you enjoy it so much all the other stuff comes but if you're chasing the thing then it it finds us- It finds- There's a way of that being again you surrounded in that darkness and you're only looking at that small light. So the show, I hope it is successful, but I don't hold it as the thing that controls my happiness like if it if if nothing happens from it, doesn't get picked up for a season, we only have this one pilot. That pilot at that moment then becomes a special.

[1:06:21] Jane Perrone Absolutely.

[1:06:23] Hilton Carter It's this one thing. And we fucking went all the way on this pilot. I mean, like, we gave that pilot every single thing we possibly could. Because I was like, dude, they're only giving us this one thing. So let's just have some fun. Let's throw everything in it. Everything we- Let's take our sweet time. What is the shot we want? Let's do that shot. Let's wait for that bead of moisture to make its way down that leaf. Let's wait it out because that is the thing that's going to be different than all of these other shows. Is that we, actually, are having fun and we care about how it looks because again my background is in film so I care very much about the look of this show. I care very much about how the scene as they say scene breaks or acts go from one to another so all that stuff means something to me and I think it'll be noticeable in the show versus all the other renovation interior shows.

[1:07:38] Jane Perrone Because it's quite a crowd, I mean it's you know not trying to be a negative Nelly here but it's quite a crowded arena that you're trying to get into.

[1:07:46] Hilton Carter Yes. Very crow- I mean the only thing that's different is you know we're throwing in plants in that sense but I do think the the the big difference and, you- and we talked about this in the past. Is that you don't see many people like me doing this thing.

[1:08:08] Jane Perrone I wanted to ask you this- Oh sorry banged the table let me start that again. I wanted to ask you this question because we, I actually got some flack for this back in 2019 when I asked you this question.

[1:08:18] Hilton Carter Flack for what?

[1:08:19] Jane Perrone Well I think it was from somebody who was a Trump supporter - not that I mentioned the word Trump - but anyway we talked, I asked you the question 'what is it like being a black man in America in 2019?' And I just wanted to follow up and say has anything changed? Has- has- have things got any different?

[1:08:35] Hilton Carter Can you remind me what I said?

[1:08:38] Jane Perrone I honestly can't remember what you said.

[1:08:40] Hilton Carter Because whatever I said then, I'll probably say, no, nothing has changed.

[1:08:44] Jane Perrone Probably noth- I- I think yeah, I think that's probably a fair summary.

[1:08:47] Hilton Carter Nothing has changed. I mean, being a black man in America is exactly what it was like in 2019 and in 2024. But being... being a artist, a creative who is a black male in this particular space, we're talking about plants. When I first entered into this space, I didn't see anyone like myself. I at least get to get excited when I see individuals who are now found their way to plant parenting and want to voice that out into the world. I love it. It's- and some people are like, do you think they're just, you know, they're just they're just copying off of you? I'm like, I want them to be, I want flooded, flood the entire market with folks like myself that look like me. Because at the end of the day, I think... While my daughter will always think that a black man can be someone who is very excited about indoor houseplants or plants in general. So 'my dad is very excited about houseplants.' That's just a normal thing for a tall black guy. Right. That'll be normal for her. I think more of that is necessary because for all of us, you know, I think every race, nationality needs to see that.

[1:10:20] Hilton Carter We, and I'm saying across the board, not just black folks in America, black folks in the UK, black folks wherever they are, or just any colour of folk wherever they live, do different things. I've seen some amazing different colour folk play basketball. You know what I love about that? It's not just on us anymore. I don't get thrown into the 'you're tall and black so you must play basketball.' Sometimes I'll see a tall white guy and I'll go 'man you must play basketball.' Just to mess with their brains but maybe they do maybe- I mean every race of people are are and across the globe are awesome at playing this sport like awesome at playing this sport and for us it for us as black men it was always it's just like that was the thing that uh we could be good at that uh music or all and I think um now with, and this is just in social media, I think people have the opportunity to show their true selves and be their true selves and find that happiness. You want to be a birder? I don't think that's what they're called right someone who bird watches? Be it. Be the best one you want to- you can be. You want to be a home chef, like it is open, open the gates for so many to just chase their passions. So I do think that it's great that...

[1:11:53] Hilton Carter That people are see more of us in the space and I do think having this show, is the one thing that will be different than the other renovation shows or uh plant-ish shows is that um you're getting a different voice but again you're getting my voice and no one's me. I'm the only Hilton Carter, that is this Hilton Carter, there's other Hilton Carters out there, but I'm the only one that's me. And I'm going to- and my whole goal is, has always been to be myself in the spaces that I'm in. Because if you allow someone to control the way you navigate in the world and tell your story differently, then you're never going to be happy because it's going to shift and change. And then people are going to be so confused about who you are when they actually meet you and I've seen that happen to some folks and for me it's just like let me just always give me, because there's no- I don't have to be... Different to express my genuine care for plants and for people.

[1:13:11] Hilton Carter There's no I can't I can't help myself but when I'm surrounded by plants to go, nuts I'm surrounded by good people to show them how excited I am to be around them. Same with art and all those different things and to just sometimes be a fucking goofball because those who know me, know me as that, right. When my first, when my friends first saw me getting into plants, they didn't know who that person was. I didn't know who that person was. But they saw the shift and the change that was happening to me.

[1:13:49] Jane Perrone And who you are today might not be who you are today in 20 years time.

[1:13:52] Hilton Carter Exactly.

[1:13:52] Jane Perrone I mean, I was just thinking as you were talking about that, I had a joke with my best friend that has two menopausal, she's a brown woman, I'm a white woman. I said, like, she's an Asian woman, and I said, look, you know, with our like mid-range, like very- 10 year old uh sedan cars uh we could we could literally be running a drug ring and nobody's ever gonna know because we are invisible.

[1:14:21] Hilton Carter Yeah yeah.

[1:14:22] Jane Perrone As two middle class uh women in the UK, looking as we do, like we could literally go- my Škoda Roomster could be driving around with anything inside it and I'm never going to get stopped the police, they're never going to know like I just- It makes me laugh.

[1:14:41] Hilton Carter Well you just put it out there now so you can't-

[1:14:43] Jane Perrone I know exactly but it's interesting. Everyone's coming from their own perspective aren't they? Everyone's got their own story and their own challenges and, but it's evolving so you know like, in 10 years time you're not going to be quite the same person as you are now.

[1:14:58] Hilton Carter No I hope not. I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be the person I am I am right at this moment 10 years down the road. That would be terrible I would feel- I should- we shall always be forever evolving, changing, shifting, I'm gonna learn I'm gonna be different because of, one I'll have two kids who would have shown me something that I was not aware of before.

[1:15:22] Jane Perrone Oh you're starting a journey I'm just going to say this-

[1:15:24] Hilton Carter There it is.

[1:15:25] Jane Perrone You're starting a journey.

[1:15:25] Hilton Carter And I'm excited for I don't know where's then that's the thing-

[1:15:29] Jane Perrone It's going to take you to places that you've not expected to go. I'm telling you that now.

[1:15:32] Hilton Carter I'm excited. I never thought I would want to write a children's book but that's something that is on my dream board or vision board. Like I want that because I've read so many books to my daughter and I'm like I should make one of these because I want her to hear my words.

[1:15:47] Jane Perrone Yeah and you're thinking to yourself 'I could do this. I could do this shit. This is easy!' Some of them are terrible, some of them are great.

[1:15:51] Hilton Carter I've read the same, book over and over so many times that I could recite a book for you right now.

[1:15:58] Jane Perrone Oh same I'm still 10 years, 15 years on, I can still recite.

[1:16:01] Hilton Carter Right. And I would rather do it in my own words and give that to my child, right? But, you know, so I just think that it's, and to me. How boring is it- How boring would it be if 10 years from now, I'm literally this guy? That's boring. I want to seek that change, that knowledge, the thing that's going to make 54-year-old Hilton look back and go, man, 44-year-old Hilton was... he didn't know it yet. But this, now I got it. And then 64-year-old Hilton's like, man, this is living. Like, this is fun. This is exciting. And now I'm like, I don't know, maybe I'm making planters. I'm actually now getting my hands in the clay and making planters. Maybe I'm back to film and I'm just filmmaking. But it's all about all these stories are driven by people's transformations like before and after plants.

[1:17:03] Jane Perrone Well we'll have to come back. We'll have to come back in a few years and just see what has changed again.

[1:17:07] Hilton Carter Well, we started this every five years, so maybe we can do every five years.

[1:17:11] Jane Perrone Every five years we'll have to have a review and say, where are you at? I mean, it's fascinating, isn't it? And I think that's the reason why I always try to, when I turned 50 this year, I said to myself, I'm not going to be one of those people who's like, oh, no, I've turned 50. How terrible. I'm like, I'm still fucking here.

[1:17:26] Hilton Carter Still alive.

[1:17:27] Jane Perrone Like, I'm still alive.

[1:17:28] Hilton Carter How?

[1:17:28] Jane Perrone I'm not, everybody of my cohort is still here, right? That's what I think to myself.

[1:17:31] Hilton Carter Yeah. How lucky are you?

[1:17:32] Jane Perrone How lucky I am to be alive, to be healthy, to have two children who are doing okay, and a husband who's doing okay. That is a, that's a massive bonus.

[1:17:42] Hilton Carter Hell yeah. And I think, I mean, I mean, and to, and to have done the things that you wanted to do on your terms is another thing that you should be very thankful for.

[1:17:53] Jane Perrone Yeah and I mean you know that's the thing, you've got to just keep on moving forward and who knows how many more books you're going to have written in another five years. Are you slowing down?

[1:18:02] Hilton Carter I hope to slow down uh that is my goal. My goal is-

[1:18:05] Jane Perrone If TV takes off you will have to slow down 'cause that's a lot of-

[1:18:06] Hilton Carter Yeah I mean even- I mean even in the book process I think a lot of things that I'm excited about definitely when it comes to plant styling spaces that slowed down because I'm making books you know. I mean I can do not able to do the thing that I'm so excited to do because of the making of the books and then book tours right that takes so much time so yeah I think I think as far as like book making the goal, the hope is to not make as many. I mean we're, I'm going to be as quiet as I can while I'm here I don't want my publishers to hear even though they'll probably listen to this podcast damn it. No, but I do think it's important for me to slow down now because of the fact I have these two little lives in my life that I want to focus on and see what they have. See what knowledge I have that I can share with them and what little things that they can then share with me. I don't want to continue down the same, I make a book every year, every year and a half and then go on a book tour to repeat because that can get boring.

[1:19:15] Jane Perrone Because you know that second child, I'm just warning you about this, that second child. It's not going to be the same as the first child.

[1:19:23] Hilton Carter Of course. I hear it- I've heard it a thousand times.

[1:19:25] Jane Perrone The second child is gonna be... Oh my gosh.

[1:19:27] Hilton Carter So since I've heard it, I've been calling my first child shit. I'm like you're so terrible, you're so bad. Because I'm like, maybe... But my first child, Holland's so great actually. So it's, so I'm like oh no I don't want this another one to be bad- because she's so good.

[1:19:41] Jane Perrone Yeah but the- yeah you see this is the thing. Well my sister has a phrase which is SMOGs 'smug mothers of girls'so you're gonna be alright because you're having another girl.

[1:19:50] Hilton Carter There it is.

[1:19:50] Jane Perrone But like my second one was a boy and it was just a very- I mean like they're just unique individuals very very different.

[1:19:56] Hilton Carter For sure.

[1:19:57] Jane Perrone But you know it's a wild ride having children. It really is. So you're about to embark on an amazing journey and what I think is very exciting for you because I think you're this kind of person who embrace it is, they will come with their own unique interests. So for example my daughter is really into reptiles, snakes, and other things. Like I never expected-

[1:20:19] Hilton Carter Like right now?

[1:20:21] Jane Perrone She has been for the last few years I never expected to be the "grandparent" of a snake. She has a snake.

[1:20:28] Hilton Carter Wow.

[1:20:28] Jane Perrone And so I never- I never saw that on my mood board right. But now we have a snake so you, that's the wonderful thing about it and it might pull you in different directions and take you to different places even just different plants and different experiences with-

[1:20:44] Hilton Carter Sure.

[1:20:44] Jane Perrone -like your outdoor space you know it's a it's a wild ride enjoy.

[1:20:49] Hilton Carter I'm- I'm so excited for it you know. I'm excited for the unknown so I don't know what- I didn't know it was going to be like to haveone child, I don't know it's going to be like to have two.

[1:21:00] Jane Perrone No it's like it's like saying oh I'm flying to the moon. Well, nobody knows what it's like on the moon because you've never been there before so you're just going to find out. It's all good. It's all good. Well, it's been amazing to chat to you, Hilton. Thank you so much. We've covered so much ground. We've said fuck Calatheas. We've said you know like children are crazy. We've talked about TV.

[1:21:21] Hilton Carter We've covered it all.

[1:21:22] Jane Perrone We've covered it all. But yeah, I'm excited to see what you do next and I'm going to be tuning into that TV show and checking for fiddle leaf figs in dark corners. Writing an angry letter to HBO. I'm writing in...

[1:21:38] Hilton Carter There it is, there it is.

[1:21:40] Jane Perrone If I see anything I'm not happy with.

[1:21:41] Hilton Carter Please please let them know, let them know. Hilton why did he do that? But thank you so much for having me.

[1:21:48] Jane Perrone It's always a pleasure to talk to you. It's a delight.

[1:21:51] Hilton Carter It is. I think every time I come to London we should find time to-

[1:21:55] Jane Perrone Well we're gonna see you at the Chelsea Flower Show next year right?

[1:21:58] Hilton Carter And we should do another podcast then. We shouldn't wait five years for it then. We should do it-

[1:22:02] Jane Perrone No. We'll do it next year. You can give me your honest critiques of all the houseplant studios.

[1:22:06] Hilton Carter Should we do it there or should we do it after? Like right after I do it?

[1:22:10] Jane Perrone It's quite noisy there is the only thing.

[1:22:11] Hilton Carter Okay. So maybe I do it and then after then we chat. What do I think? I thought it was...

[1:22:22] Jane Perrone What you're going to think is 'it needs me to be styling one of these things.'

[1:22:26] Hilton Carter Really?

[1:22:26] Jane Perrone That's what you're going to be thinking because you're going to...

[1:22:28] Hilton Carter Am I going to-

[1:22:29] Jane Perrone You'll have so many- You're going to have ideas, right?

[1:22:31] Hilton Carter So I'm going to leave inspired.

[1:22:32] Jane Perrone You're going to leave inspired.

[1:22:33] Hilton Carter That's what I want. That's all I want.

[1:22:35] Jane Perrone Well, it's a pleasure. And I will pop in the show notes all of your amazing social media and your book and all of those pieces of information for listeners to go and find out more. But thank you for joining me on Late Night On The Ledge.

[1:22:52] Music.

[1:22:59] Jane Perrone Thanks so much to Hilton Carter for joining me this week. I'll be back in two weeks time with another Late Night On The Ledge, so I'll see you then. Bye.

[1:23:12] Music.

[1:23:32] Jane Perrone The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Used To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku, and Whistle by BenJamin Banger, all tracks are licensed under creative commons, visit the show notes for details.

[1:23:53] Music.

In the second of the Late Night On The Ledge series, host Jane Perrone chats to plant stylist and author Hilton Carter about his career, the wonders of plant propagation, and why we’ve both got it in for calatheas.

Content note: this episode features swearing and probably isn’t suitable for younger ears. If you need to find another episode to listen to, why not check out my themed back catalogue?

What is Late Night On The Ledge?

Imagine a late night TV chat show featuring your favourite guests, lots of chat, a dash of gossip and the odd rant - that’s what you’re getting when you tune into Late Night On The Ledge. This is the second of four Late Night OTL episodes which will run until the start of September. Two will be audio-only, and two will offer video as well.

This week’s guest

Hilton Carter is a Baltimore, USA-based plant and interior stylist, author, and artist. You’ll find him on Instagram as @hiltoncarter and he also hosts the podcast Inside Hilton’s Head, plus he is the author of books Wild at Home: How to style and care for beautiful plants, Wild Interiors: Beautiful plants in beautiful spaces, Wild Creations , Living Wild and his latest work The Propagation Handbook.

The pilot of his show Planterior is available on HBO Max.

You can hear my previous interview with Hilton in On The Ledge episode 92.

---

CREDITS

This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, The Road We Use To Travel When We Were Kids by Komiku and Whistle by BenJamin Banger (@benjaminbanger on Insta; website benjaminbanger.com).