Episode 300: Late Night On The Ledge - spilling the tea with Sarah and Tea
Host Jane Perrone is joined by Sarah Gerrard-Jones and Tea Francis for this special episode of On The Ledge. Photograph: Up Top Studios.
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Transcript
Jane Perrone (00:06)
Hello and welcome to On The Ledge, the 300th episode. I'm your host, Jane Perrone. And this is not only the 300th episode, it's also the first in the Late Night On The Ledge series. What does that mean? Well, it's a bit like a late night talk show. So excellent guests, fun conversations, and maybe a little bit of bad language. So if you have children listening, maybe pick another episode.
Today I'm joined by two wonderful guests and friends of the show, Sarah Gerard Jones, AKA The Plant Rescuer and Tea Francis, AKA Tea's Jungle. We're here to spill the plant tea with Sarah and Tea. I cannot wait.
But before we get started, we've got to have a shout out to our sponsors for this week's show, Ladybird Plant Care, which is a Brighton-based business run by the wonderful Tessa Cobley. And she's a wealth of information about plant pests and the best way to tackle them, whether that's your house plant collection, your veg patch or your garden. And it's all about using good bugs to save your plants from pests. So if you're battling fungus gnats, slugs, thrips, vine weevil or any other plant eaters, introducing their natural predator supplied by Ladybird Plant Care, of course, will soon send them packing. So thanks so much to Tessa for sponsoring the show. And if you want to find out more about Ladybird Plant Care, visit ladybirdplantcare.co.uk. And thank you Tessa for all your support. And if you want to hear more from Tessa, you can hear her in episodes 176 and 177 of On The Ledge where we talk about biological controls.
Right, on with the chat guys. Thank you so much for joining me, Sarah and Tea. Lovely to have you both here. I need to give you a bit more of a fulsome introduction. Sarah, you're known for your wonderful work teaching us all how to rescue houseplants from your book, The Plant Rescuer, and your Plant Rescue Box Scheme to your appearances on Gardener's World and Alan Titchmarsh's Gardening Club. Afterwards, I need to find out what Alan's really like. But you also run Green Rooms Market with the wonderful Ian Morrison of Liquid Gold Leaf. So you're a busy lady. Now Tea, you're the woman at the microscope, as I like to think of you for these Green Rooms market events. You're a house plant collector extraordinaire. And you've also featured on the show before in the very hairy, scary 268 episode, which was all about spiders. Love that episode. You also, I mean, we might not get onto this, but I want to talk to you about taxidermy too and your art and you're just a woman with many strings to your bow. So let's get into it. It's exciting to be not in my scummy office and to be here in the beautiful-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:02) Yeah this is fancy isn't it?
Tea Francis (03:03) I love it. So good.
Jane Perrone (03:03) Up Top Studios in Hertfordshire. It's very swish and we've brought along some plants to set the vibe of course. So it's been seven and a half years since I started On The Ledge.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:15) That's crazy.
Jane Perrone (03:16) 300 episodes ago.
Tea Francis (03:16) Hats off to you.
Jane Perrone (03:17) February 2017.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:18) Yeah amazing. You must be exhausted.
Jane Perrone (03:20) I'm really fucking tired. Yeah. Let's get some swearing in there from the start. We've had-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:25) This is a Jane you've never seen before.
Jane Perrone (03:28) Now we've had quite a lot happen. Quite a lot's happened in the last few years. We've had a global pandemic; Brexit; Trumps been and gone, he's possibly coming back again; we're on our fifth Prime Minister here in the UK; but let's put all that aside because that's quite frankly not today.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:45) A shit show.
Jane Perrone (03:47) That's a shit show.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (03:47) Yeah.
Jane Perrone (03:48) We want to talk about what's happened in the world of houseplants and what's changed for the better, for the worse, over the past seven or so years since On The Ledge hit the airwaves. What...I mean we can't, we can't look away really can we from the fact that the pandemic had this massive impact.
Tea Francis (04:05) No definitely not.
Jane Perrone (04:07) On houseplants.
Tea Francis (04:08) It did. It brought-
Jane Perrone (04:08) Because I saw that in my show. But-
Tea Francis (04:09) Yeah.
Jane Perrone (04:10) What did it mean for you?
Tea Francis(04:12) I'd always had a lot of plants in my house, it just kind of meant that it had become more acceptable to add more. So, the people I was living with, you know they were like 'ok well every single available space is already taken with plants. So how are you going to do that?' And I'm like 'where there's a will there's a way. If I want more I will get more and I will fit them in somehow.' And I think because so many people were spending so much more time at home and wanted to feel better about being at home, and have a nicer space. Having plants around does that.
And when you're home with them more and you're able to see how they're doing, it's...you're able to take better care of them because you can see what's happening. If you're out in an office all day everyday, you don't necessarily pay much attention to what they're doing. But when you're at home with them, watching them grow, you take better care of them, and also you get that kind of...that boost of happiness from just seeing them thrive under your care, do you know what I mean? So it was sort of a mental health thing for a lot of people, to kind of help with their overall mood. But yeah, for me personally, it was just a neatly packaged excuse to get a whole lot more.
Jane Perrone (05:12)
And I can confirm that you have got l- so many plants. I mean I don't know how-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (05:17)
So I was going to her house - you've been right?
Jane Perrone (05:18)
I've been.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (05:18)
Cause you pull up and there's all these clean windows and then you can see Tea's bedroom in the top corner. Have you been? Yeah, that's where she lives.
Tea Francis (05:25)
Mmm yeah. Mmm.
Jane Perrone (05:27)
It's...yeah it's quite impressive how many plants you've packed into that space.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (05:31)
It's like almost unhinged.
Tea Francis (05:32)
It is unhinged.
Jane Perrone (05:33)
Yeah.
Tea Francis (05:34)
Everything about me is fully unhinged.
Jane Perrone (05:34)
We'll- we'll, yeah we'll get more into this as we go on, but I mean you're right, it's...it was - and I always sort of look, I mean I, as somebody who's been growing plants since I was like five, I feel sometimes very old when people are like 'yeah I've been into houseplants since 2020.' And you're thinking 'that's g- I'm really really great but I feel-'
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (05:52)
That it was like ten minutes ago.
Jane Perrone (05:53)
Yeah, like it feels like-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (05:54)
I'm the OG. Yeah.
Jane Perrone (05:56)
Yeah. It feels...yeah. And I guess, for me, that's part of the delight, is seeing new people come along. 'Cause that's, that's what it's all about, right? It's very exciting but you do sometimes see those people in the "honeymoon period" and think 'you've no idea what's coming with that two- two leaf cutting and it's gonna all go a bit crazy. I mean Sarah, I mean you can't talk, your house is-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:17)
Yeah but it's-
Jane Perrone (06:17)
-overrun with plants.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:18)
-well it used to be I think. I think, I think back when the pandemic happened, I think it was quite unhinged, like yours. But I think I've gone past that now, and I think I've thinned out and I've just got more plants that I love, rather than more plants. Is that...does that make sense?
Jane Perrone (06:35)
Yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:37)
I wanted to see the ones that are really beautiful rather-
Tea Francis(06:39)
No no no no, I'm not having this.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:39)
-than just being hidden...
Tea Francis (06:41)
I've been in your house recently, it is still unhinged.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:43)
Is it?
Tea Francis (06:44)
You've still got- Yes. Yeah, like if you sit at your-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:47)
I feel like it's bare.
Tea Francis (06:47)
-dining table there is a good chance-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:48)
I feel like it's bare.
Tea Francis (06:49)
-you're gonna get stabbed in the head by a yucca.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:50)
That is true.
Tea Francis (06:51)
There's cacti behind where I usually sit so if I-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (06:53)
Maybe I've just got more clever about where I put them.
Tea Francis (06:55)
I'm quite clumsy. If I topple out of a seat. Like I- I'm standing up with spikes stuck in me everywhere. 'Cause there are cacti all over the place. And then there's the whole situation with your greenhouse.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:03)
Yeah. Okay, maybe yeah, yeah.
Tea Francis (07:03)
So your greenhouse has all those beautiful cacti in it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:05)
I've put them outside basically.
Tea Francis (07:06)
But if the temperature drops to a certain level, you have to bring them all into the house.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:10)
Yeah.
Tea Francis (07:10)
So when we come from spring, like winter into spring-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:13)
True.
Tea Francis (07:13)
-and the temperature is up and down-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:14)
Winter is unhinged.
Tea Francis (07:15)
-you get all excited because you're like, 'oh they can go outside now.'
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:17)
Yeah, that's true.
Tea Francis (07:17)
And then you're like, 'Tea, I can't believe it's going to be sub zero again. They've all got to come back inside.' And there's hundreds of them. So please.
Jane Perrone (07:23)
And while- Well, surely it also, while the cacti are outside, that leaves extra space that could be filled.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:28)
This is the problem.
Tea Francis (07:28)
And it is.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (07:30)
So when the cacti go out to the greenhouse, then I go, 'oh it looks really bare in the house.' Fill it with more plants. Come winter, I'm like, 'shit. I've done it again.' I never learn from my mistakes.
Jane Perrone (07:41)
Yeah, I do know what you mean though about becoming more mature in your sort of collecting habit in that. Yeah. You just, you, I sort of look, sometimes look at a plant and go, I, 'there is nothing about you that I like. Why have I still got you? Why am I still taking care of you? When actually you're giving me, I'm getting nothing out of it. I can find another home for you, for somebody who would really appreciate you.' And I guess that's what happens to most-
Tea Francis (08:06)
This is like all of my previous relationships.
Jane Perrone (08:11)
Well, this is how you evaluate things, right? And- and for me-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (08:14)
Yeah, are you bringing me joy? No, out.
Jane Perrone (08:16)
No, no. I mean, this is why the only fern that I have is that one up there because ferns, I've just, I love looking at other people's ferns, but do I want to have them in my house? Do they fit my style of care?
Tea Francis (08:29)
I might have something in the works that's going to change your opinion on that.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (08:33)
Yeah she does.
Jane Perrone (08:33)
Ooh okay.
Tea Francis (08:34)
Yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (08:34)
This is an exclusive.
Jane Perrone (08:35)
Okay. Let's hear about it. Let's try to convince me.
Tea Francis (08:38)
Okay. So I'm working with a partner on a project at the moment for a planter concept. It started out as a really simple idea for like a window box designed for like apartment life to make things look really nice, aesthetic, streamlined. So if you've got a lot of plant pots and you just want them to look neat and tidy. We had this like, well, he had this idea for this planter that would have like a hidden drip tray underneath and it was real simple, you know. But then of course he showed it to me and I was like, 'yeah, but what if it had a reservoir underneath' and 'what if it was, you know, somewhat self-sustaining' and 'what if you, hey, let's put a terrarium top on it. Okay, yeah.' So now you've got, so got like all these various different things. I refer to myself as a Swiss army human because I do all these different things. This is kind of like a Swiss army planter. So it has all of these different things. It's got a ventilation system, it's got a lighting system.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (09:28)
It's beautiful looking.
Tea Francis (09:29)
It's absolutely stunning to look at.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (09:29)
Really beautiful looking.
Tea Francis (09:31)
But-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (09:31)
Is it about the length of that table?
Tea Francis (09:33)
The one we've made, but we're going to be looking at all different sizes and different like configurations.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (09:35)
It's really slick.
Jane Perrone (09:36)
It sounds like a game changer.
Tea Francis (09:37)
It's really, really cool.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (09:39)
And anyway, you can grow ferns in it. Can't you?
Tea Francis (09:40)
Yeah. Well, this is what I've been testing it with.
Jane Perrone (09:42)
Oh okay.
Tea Francis (09:42)
So I've put a whole bunch of stuff in there and ferns because I have a love-hate relationship with ferns in so far that I absolutely love them, but they don't particularly appreciate my ADHD tendency to forget they exist if I'm not looking at them. So I put a bunch of ferns in this thing and my God, they are flourishing.
Jane Perrone (10:02)
Wow.
Tea Francis (10:02)
And I don't mean just like looking nice. I mean like full on flourishing. The growth is insane because the conditions inside are stable. So there's no fluctuations in humidity. There's no fluctuations in like moisture in the soil. It's all level where they want it. So, I want to, we're going to be making a few more sort of different shape, size, shape, prototype things soon. And what I want, for myself particularly, is one that I can have a gigantic maiden's hair fern in because they are my absolute favourites and I've killed every single one I've ever had.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:32)
Can I just say I've got a maiden hair right now and it's doing great.
Tea Francis (10:35)
Yeah, yours looks amazing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:35)
Under a grow light.
Jane Perrone (10:37)
There's always one, isn't there?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:38)
No no no no
Tea Francis (10:38)
Yeah I know. I'm actually offended by that.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:40)
No, but wait, wait, this is because it's under a grow light and you wouldn't necessarily think that it's going to do well under a grow light.
Tea Francis (10:45)
No these, they do.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:46)
Ans it's doing fantastic.
Tea Francis (10:47)
For me, it's always been moisture, the problem with moisture.
Jane Perrone (10:49)
Yes moisture.
Tea Francis (10:49)
But your maiden hair fern is beautiful-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:52)
Oh, beautiful.
Tea Francis (10:52)
-and it offends me. I'm upset about it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (10:53)
Sorry. Sorry about that.
Jane Perrone (10:55)
How do you, how do you keep it moist? That's not a phrase I wanted to-
Tea Francis (10:58)
I don't want to- I don't want-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (11:00)
Moist.
Jane Perrone (11:00)
That's my major issue that I just let these things dry out too far-
Tea Francis (11:03)
This-
Jane Perrone (11:03)
-because of my cactus brain.
Tea Francis (11:04)
This system that we have, you'll know at a glance if there's enough moisture in there.
Jane Perrone (11:09)
Okay.
Tea Francis (11:11)
And, the- It's so easy to maintain it and to keep it-
Jane Perrone (11:13)
Is there a working title for this thing? Is it like- can we - are we-
Tea Francis (11:16)
It's actually got my- It's actually got my name on it. But it's-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (11:19)
Her full name. Not-
Tea Francis (11:20)
Yeah. My actual full name, but I shall reveal at a later date.
Jane Perrone (11:24)
Well, I mean-
Tea Francis (11:24)
It's-
Jane Perrone (11:25)
-you're going to have to keep us posted on this.
Tea Francis (11:26)
Yeah definitely. Definitely. I, I, it's-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (11:28)
It's very exciting. I can't wait to get one.
Tea Francis (11:29)
I've got some- Yeah. It's, it's such a beautiful thing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (11:32)
It really is.
Tea Francis (11:33)
It's such a beautiful thing.
Jane Perrone (11:33)
Well, let's stop plugging all your- your- your products and-
Tea Francis (11:37)
See I can't even sit here and-
Jane Perrone (11:38)
-get back to the question at hand.
Tea Francis (11:39)
Yeah I can't even sit here and try and sell it to you yet because it's not-
Jane Perrone (11:42)
No.
Tea Francis (11:42)
-ready. But it's something that we're working on.
Jane Perrone (11;43)
I'm sure there's going to be listeners who want to hear more about this-
Tea Francis (11:45)
Yeah.
Jane Perrone (11:45)
-because it sounds very exciting. And I think this is a good thing because so many of these products that are sold to us for houseplant stuff aren't actually that houseplant suitable. Like lots of things are designed by people who don't really grow houseplants and you're like, 'that's- that's not going to work.' So it sounds like you've done all the right things to get this working.
Tea Francis (12:05)
Yeah it's going to be very versatile. So anything from like cacti and succulents to carnivorous plants could potentially be grown in this thing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (12:11)
Imagine that with carnivorous plants on your windowsill?
Jane Perrone (12:13)
Yeah, that sounds really cool.
Tea Francis (12:15)
And it- it's, the idea is to keep it as low maintenance as possible and to try and sort of take a lot of the guesswork out of plant keeping. So...
Jane Perrone (12:24)
Well let me steer you back onto this question.
Tea Francis (12:26)
Yes. Sorry.
Jane Perrone (12:27)
Good things, bad things. I mean, I'm going to say that one of the bad things has been the whole rare plant thing. I don't know, I'm going to going to catch some flack for this, but I just found that whole chopping and propping, buying things for a thousand pounds and like flipping them just really... That's not what houseplants are about for me, but I can understand, know, like, well, hey, we're in late stage capitalism, it's going to happen. But it just, found that unedifying.
Tea Francis (12:59)
I-
Jane Perrone (12:59)
And I'm glad it's kind of over.
Tea Francis (13:00)
Yeah I mean, I- I saw the potential in it because at the end of the day, when there's super rare plants coming into the market, it's always going to be the people with loads of money who want to brag about it, who are going to get them in and be like, 'oh I've got a monstera species blah blah blah blah.' You know. 'Nobody else has got one.' I was like, okay, well cool, you're going to chop and prop it and sell cuttings for a few thousand pounds or whatever and more people. It's going to trickle down and eventually it will reach us. And if we are just happy to have that plant, regardless of bragging rights, it'll get to us eventually. But what I really took a pro- like what I really had a problem with, with anyone who claimed that they were a fucking investment. I'm sorry, but nothing that devalues at that rate is an investment. That's like me-
Jane Perrone (13:40)
It's a really poor investment.
Tea Francis (13:40)
That's like me saying that, you know, 'yeah well I'm planning on going out and buying myself a 1980s BMW soon, and that's going to be a solid investment.' Yeah, it would be if I've got the money to put into it and make it absolutely amazing, but no, it's going to be a money pit. It's going to be a fucking disaster. And I know that, you know, it's for me, it's something else. But telling people that it's an investment, telling people that it's a good idea, telling people that it's a wise way to spend your money is like disingenuous.
Jane Perrone (14:10)
And I think it's a of a pyramid screen sc- sc-, say that word again, pyramid scheme vibe in that, maybe there are a few people at the very top who are making some money, but then it's all the people below who fell prey to that, that then... And also I just look at these plants and think, well, they're not really, like the definition of rare we could go on to for days, I kind of feel like a lot of those plants, if you look at it, if you really look at it, is it any better than a standard devil- There's no, like there's nothing to it. It seemed like a bit of a pyramid scheme to me. And if you love those beautiful plants, I mean, I've got "rare" plants which are worth like five pounds.
Tea Francis (14:50)
Yeah.
Jane Perrone (14:51)
But they're- they are-
Tea Francis (14:51)
And-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (14:53)
That's so true
Jane Perrone (14:53)
By that definition, they're rare-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (14:54)
Yeah.
Jane Perrone (14:54)
-because you can't- they're hard to get hold of.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (14:56)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Tea Francis (14:56)
Rarity is subjective as well.
Jane Perrone (14:58)
Yeah.
Tea Francis (14:58)
You know, it's all down to the market trends and all rest of it. If I can do what I usually do and steer the conversation towards spiders for a moment. When I first started keeping tarantulas when I was 17, 18, my first spider was a Chilean Rose. And it was the same kind of spider you'd see in any pet shop you went into that had exotic pets. It would always be Chilean Rose and you'd be able to pick up a mature female for like £15 and nobody bat an eyelid. They kind of disappeared from the hobby because people thought they were boring, nobody was really breeding them, they were focusing on other things. Then laws came in in South America regarding the export of these animals and all of a sudden you can't find a Chilean Rose anymore.
And then the next thing you know, they do show up again because a couple of people have bred them and like they've had a couple of egg sacs and they're selling spiderlings that are like a centimetre leg span for like 80, 90 quid. And you don't know if that's going to end being a male or a female, which hugely influences the price when they reach maturity and all of this stuff. So what was the staple, the most common, the "spider plant" of the spider world back then is now, you know, for a period of time was like gold dust and became extremely rare because people lost interest in it. So they weren't propagating it anymore, you know? So if people take a certain type of plant for granted and stop growing it and they're not really that bothered anymore. You may find that 10 years from now you want to find yourself, I don't know, a Hoya carnosa. That's never going to happen because they live forever. But like, you take my example, like something that right now is pretty commonplace, you might not be able to find it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (16:29)
It's like what happened with the Christmas cactus, isn't it? They are rare.
Tea Francis (16:32)
There you go, good example.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (16:33)
To get a clump of a Christmas cactus now is difficult unless you buy one off Facebook Marketplace or someone gives you a propagation of an old one. So you're so right about that.
Jane Perrone (16:42)
Yeah, I guess, you know, I just try to be driven by what I actually like as opposed to what I'm being told to like, which I guess is, but that gets us neatly onto the next question. I mean, we need to start getting a little bit petty here, throwing some shade. I want to talk about the things you hate about the houseplant world. You know, it can be irrational, trifling, something that gets your goat. And I'm going to start with one word, kokedama.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (17:10)
Why does it get your goat?
Jane Perrone (17:12)
I mean I'm sure like if you-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (17:13)
I've seen beautiful ones.
Jane Perrone (17:14)
If you're like an actual Japanese person and you've chosen the plant very, very carefully and you've got all the care knowledge, then maybe it's a good idea. But it's one of these things where it's like you just can't, there's things being kokedama-ed that shouldn't be kokedama-ed.
Tea Francis (17:31)
Yeah I totally agree with you on that.
Jane Perrone (17:32)
And it's very, it's like going into a Cajun restaurant anywhere other than, you know, the Cajun parts of Louisiana. You're not going to get the genuine experience.
Tea Francis (17:44)
Yeah.
Jane Perrone (17:45)
It's not going to be right. It's not going to be right.
Tea Francis (17:46)
Yeah, yeah.
Jane Perrone (17:47)
And I just, I don't know. I was saying earlier about hanging plants also, that think the care of plants that are hanging is more difficult just because they're harder to access. I don't know. Am I, am I alone in this?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (17:57)
No I think you're-
Tea Francis (17:58) No I think you're onto something.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (17:59) I think that's really right. Because I think I've seen succulents, kokedama-ed.
Tea Francis (18:04) You have.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:04) And that's so wrong.
Tea Francis (18:04) Yeah, you have. They put like-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:05) That's moss on the outside, which needs a lot of moisture. And that plant that you've planted in it needs very little.
Tea Francis (18:12) Yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:12) How's that going to work?
Tea Francis (18:13) Yeah it's not- it's not good.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:14) Also garden centres are always hanging up now, aren't they, with various massive plants in them and you think, well the roots are just about to pop out the bottom there. You're right, it's not how it was meant to be.
Jane Perrone (18:23) Yeah, I'm sure like pure-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:24) And it's become mainstream and wrong. Yeah.
Jane Perrone (18:26) -kokedama or there's something in that, but for me it's one of those trends that isn't really applicable to the way most people grow plants.
Tea Francis (18:34) Dare I say it's a spot of cultural appropriation.
Jane Perrone (18:37) Well, indeed. I mean, I guess this is like, this is...the world of gardening writ large, isn't it? There's so many things that fit that category. But yeah, I just feel like you're setting people up for failure with those.
Tea Francis (18:49) Yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:50) True.
Tea Francis (18:51) Yeah, I think so.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:52) And a lot of the terrariums you see as well that have got wrong things in them.
Tea Francis (18:54) Yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (18:55) Again, like succulents in a closed terrarium. No. Gonna die. They're gonna die.
Tea Francis (19:00) Bonsai trees. Why? Why would you put a bonsai tree inside a terrarium? I mean-
Jane Perrone (19:04) I mean this is the thing. I love terrariums, but I just- I'm not detail orientated, sadly, when it comes to visuals. So, any terrarium I'm going to make is going to look disastrous.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:17) Really?
Jane Perrone (19:17) There's not going to be this. I haven't got the-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:18) I don't believe that. I think you could make a great terrarium.
Jane Perrone (19:21) Trust me. Trust. I think I'm just, you're overestimating my skills.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:25) We need to get Jane to make a terrarium.
Tea Francis (19:27) Yeah you're coming to our next terrarium workshop.
Jane Perrone (19:29) I mean my terrarium consists of a fish tank with a grow light in it with loads of pots of propagations that- that's my- that's my idea of what a terrarium is to me like just the propagation-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:38) Okay. Maybe doesn't sound great.
Jane Perrone (19:38) -things that need to be you know- it's not- it's not a se- in fact when I have it on my webcam on I have to turn the light off on my terrarium because-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:47) It's embarrassing.
Jane Perrone (19:48) It's- it's a shit show. It's like a load of crispy half dead things or things that are just recovering or...It's not a good look.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:55) Don't you want to make one? Is there no...I think within me-
Jane Perrone (19:58) I like looking at them.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (19:58) -I've got a real childlike thing of wanting to make a mini world. And you don't have-
Jane Perrone (20:01) Yeah, no, I like, I like looking at them and I probably would like to create it, but then I don't want to, like, it's also dust. Like, how does this feel like it just going to collect dust and...
Tea Francis (20:10) I find, see, I find them, I'm moving more towards terrariums now than I am bigger houseplants because I'm spending more time out from my house than I was before. So, whereas I had a huge, great big collection of different aroids in my bedroom, now I'm- I'm not there to sort be doing what I need to do, make sure I'm wiping them down regularly for spider mites or- do, you know, all of this.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (20:32) Caring for them 24 hours a day.
Tea Francis (20:33) Yeah exactly. And I mean-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (20:34) Which they need.
Tea Francis (20:35) You know, I just I've moved more towards terrariums because I find them easier to dust than like a lot of those large leaf plants because it's literally just one surface instead of every single leaf.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (20:46) Yeah, yeah, true.
Tea Francis (20:47) You know? And also it's enclosed environment so I don't have to worry so much about pests. And...I don't know, I just find that low maintenance thing much more appealing. Yeah.
Jane Perrone (20:57) You've sold me. Okay, I'll have one.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (20:59) Can we go back to what we hate?
Jane Perrone (21:01) Yeah. Go on.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:01) Can I- can I please say that I hate flowers stuck on cacti. I hate spray painted plants. And I really hate misinformation on labels. They're my three massive bugbears.
Jane Perrone (21:15) Can I throw in there, can I casually throw in there novelty pots, including boob pots?
Tea Francis (21:19) Oh I hate them.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:19) Boob pots are the worst.
Jane Perrone (21:22) I was in a cafe with my son the other day who's 14 and he just looked over my shoulder and he went, what is that? And they were selling boob pots and I was trying to explain to him like, he's like, 'why would you want to put that on a pot?' I'm like, 'I don't...'
Tea Francis (21:35) Who doesn't want a pair of tits on their plant?!
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:39) I've seen, I've seen the next level from this. I've seen a pissing pot.
Tea Francis (21:42) What?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:43) Out- out of a...
Jane Perrone (21:44) Yes, I've seen that. Yes.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:45) What the hell?
Tea Francis (21:45) No, I'm sorry.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:46) Penis pot. Yep. That exists.
Tea Francis (21:47) What?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (21:48) So you pour the water in, the water comes out of the penis.
Jane Perrone (21:50) I mean nothing against the human frame.
Tea Francis (21:53) Why?
Jane Perrone (21:53) Nothing against the human body. I love to celebrate the human body.
Tea Francis (21:56) Well yeah, but like...
Jane Perrone (21:58) -but I just don't want it on a plant pot.
Tea Francis (22:00) Yeah, I mean there is a time and a place.
Jane Perrone (22:01) Yeah.
Tea Francis (22:03) I mean what the, what the, no I'm sorry that's blown my mind, clean out of my skull, what the fuck?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:07) Yeah, exactly. And I can't even remember what happens, like is it to drain it? I can't remember.
Jane Perrone (22:13) Is it- is it- the- I mean it could be quite handy, the excess water's draining away.
Tea Francis (22:16) Yeah but it doesn't need to drain out of a dick, Jesus Christ! What the-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:20) It's mad. I'll send one to you. It's mad.
Tea Francis (22:21) No, please don't.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:22) It's mad.
Tea Francis (22:23) I don't think I need to see it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:13) I'll get one for your Christmas.
Jane Perrone (22:25) Yeah, that's your Christmas present sorted, you see.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:27) And yours is a big one.
Jane Perrone (22:28) So going back to the labels though, yes, that's, I mean, annoying labels.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:31) Annoying labels. Again-
Jane Perrone (22:33) Boliage plants.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:33) Again, setting us up for failure.
Tea Francis (22:35) Deliberately ambiguous and...yeah.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:39) Symbols that relate to outdoors. I mean...
Tea Francis (22:41) It's like half a sun. Three water drops. A pot halfway onto a shelf. And I don't know, like some weird alchemical symbol thrown in there for good measure for you to try and figure out.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:52) But that's...And off you go. Off you go. Go use that.
Tea Francis (22:55) Good luck.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (22:57) Keep your plant alive. Yeah. It really pisses me off. Really pisses me off.
Jane Perrone (23:00) And also, can I just also say here, I have a little personal pet hate of wrongly labeled plants. Like there's a whole thing of this plant, this particular plant, there's a primulina being labeled as a Streptocarpus and my God, that boils my piss so badly. Streptocarpus 'Pretty Turtle' is what it's sold as.
Tea Francis (23:23) Oh yeah, yeah, I know the one.
Jane Perrone (23:24) And I have to say, if anyone's selling that with that name, I have, I'm such an annoying pedant, but I have to just send them a DM or go in there and go just look, that's not a Streptocarpus.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (23:36) Wow, I didn't know. Okay
Jane Perrone (23:38) It's Primulina dryas, some kind of cultivar thereof. Like, and it just disappoints me.
Tea Francis (23:43) Just send the same message to every single one of them. I'm like, hi there, quick question. Do you enjoy being objectively wrong?
Jane Perrone (23:50) I mean, yes, that's one way of handling it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (23:52) But why do you think it happens? Why do you think?
Jane Perrone (23:54) Well, because- because in lots of these big production nurseries, they don't, they're not that bothered about... Like they're not me. They're not really bothered about which Gesneriad they're dealing with. And it's just a name. And I think they think that streptocarpus is probably slightly better known. Like who's heard of a primulina? Who even knows what that is? It's going to get too confusing. People are going to think it's a primula or something else. So they go with Streptocarpus. I mean-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (24:23) Yeah And like you say, foliage plant. What the hell's that? You may as well not bother.
Tea Francis (24:25) Foliage mix. Oh okay, cool.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (24:28) Also your foliage plant is going to be foliage now, but might flower. So- then it's a flowering plant, is it? I'm not sure. Anyway, just why bother even printing those labels? I really hate it.
Jane Perrone (24:37) It's just a massive waste, isn't it?
Tea Francis (24:40) And the thing is, is that then people will go and Google that to try and find out what it is. And then you get into a whole other situation of, people trying to find correct houseplant care information on the internet. Yes, it's there, but you have to wade through a mire of unchecked and unmoderated information and opinion pieces. People who've written something for the sake of writing something that's just complete nonsense.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (25:04) Are you talking about my book right now?
Tea Francis (25:07) No. No. I'm talking about like, you know, websites, though. I don't know. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head now.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (25:15) Well, AI's probably written it.
Tea Francis (25:17)
Well, yeah, that's the thing now. But even before AI was sort of being used more frequently, you'd have these like lifestyle websites that might have like a houseplant article on it or something. And whoever's written it, you can look them up. There's no other houseplant content come from that person. They've literally just been chucked a project by their editor and be like, write something, write this. And then, okay, I'll write an article about ferns. And so they'll write an article about Ferns. And because it's on a relatively well-known website or a website who pays a lot of money for good SEO and therefore shows up at the top of a search, you know, people are going to think, 'oh well, if it's, if it's on the first page of Google, it must be right.' 'Oh well, if it's written by somebody on this website, then it must be right.' And more often than not, it's nonsense. And actually, you know, not mentioning any names, but some of the more prominent figures on like television programs about gardening have been giving some information recently about houseplant care that's just flat out nonsense.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (26:12) Yeah, that's true. That's very true.
Tea Francis (26:24) Nonsense. And I'm just like, well, hang on a minute. Now that's gone out on the BBC. So anyone who sees or hears that is going to think, well, if the BBC said it's okay, then it must be right. And so now all of us lot who are trying to sort of gently educate people about what the science behind these things actually is, have now been, you know, it's like take two steps forward, 15 steps back because old matey boy's said, 'yeah, spray your houseplants a couple of times a day. It'll be fine.' Great humidity.
Jane Perrone (26:40) Oh, are we talking about Monty Don on misting?
Tea Francis (26:41) Yes, I'm so glad you said his name so I didn't have to.
Jane Perrone (26:42) That's okay. It's all right. I mean, he like, probably Monte Don's got time to miss his maidenhair fern. I think he said something about missing his maidenhair fern six times a day or something like that. And I just thought - not relatable, for most of us.
Tea Francis (26:56) No, no and-
Jane Perrone (26:57) I mean, you know, like I know lots of people, I know gunning for Monty Don's probably not very popular because he's like, you know, outdoor gardening wise, I've got no, I've got no issues, but yeah, misting plants, telling people to mist their plants, I think is just a recipe for damaged soft furnishings.
Tea Francis (27:14) You can tell people- yeah. Exactly. You can tell people to mist their plants, but tell them to mist them for the right reasons, you know. It's not going to raise ambient humidity by one iota for any more than a split second, but it will help you with things like wiping down your leaves or pest management or something.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (27:30) I am not sure most people know why they're misting though. They just think, 'I have to mist my plants.'
Jane Perrone (27:34) Because they bought one of those like expensive misters in the garden centre.
Tea Francis (27:37) Yeah, because it was right next to the house plants. So if it's there next to the baby bio and the rest of it, then you must have to have that.
Jane Perrone (27:43) Although have you ever bought one of those misters that's ever actually worked? Like they break after about two seconds.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (27:46) No. They do.
Jane Perrone (27:49) Those things are just the most annoying.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (27:51) Not fit for purpose.
Jane Perrone (27:53) No. Not fit for purpose. So yeah, the misters are out. I just bought myself a massive five litre pump sprayer.
Tea Francis (28:03) I love those.
Jane Perrone (28:06) Absolutely game changer.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (28:07) Game changer. Game changer.
Jane Perrone (28:08) I've got one already. I had one, but which I've had for about five years, but that had broken and I bought another one and it's, it's, I researched it quite carefully and it's very sturdy. Oh and it's great.
Tea Francis (28:18) For any of the listeners that we may have just given whiplash by saying misting plants is absolute bullshit, but I've got this really great misting bottle. Shall we maybe explain what we use it for?
Jane Perrone (28:27) Well yeah- so, so yeah- It's like a big, it's like a big vessel with a pump action thing that you pressure up. So you pressurise the vessel and then you've got a lance and then yours- it's basically, I use it for watering. I use it for spraying down plants. So, this morning, some of the plants here like that, those snake plants were really dusty. So I took them outside and just sprayed the whole plant down with that. So, it's like showering them down, watering, applying, if you're applying maybe SB Plant Invigorator or some kind of plants' foliar feed. They're really great for that. That kind of thing. That's what I use them for. I don't use them, I don't spray on water to create some kind of false idea that they're...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (29:10) You even did a test on it, didn't you? I think you did an episode where you tested out the tray underneath your plant pot.
Jane Perrone (29:17) Yeah, maybe I did.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (29:18) I think you did.
Jane Perrone (29:19) Digging back into the archives of my brain.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (29:19) Because I was like, goodness she's done this because people think they're raising the humidity by misting around their plant, and you actually did a test and you're like, 'it doesn't.'
Jane Perrone (29:28) No, and I think also, mean, even like pebble trays underneath doesn't make a massive amount of difference either. There's not a great deal you can do, but what I've kind of realised, I think, is that actually there's like, it's more to do with, for me, is moisture in the air is less vital than making sure the root environment is at the right level of moisture.
Tea Francis (29:50) You can usually acclimate a lot of plants that in nature require a sort of higher ambient humidity to sort of regular room conditions. I mean, obviously there are exceptions, some more sensitive, sort of the rarer plants, but you know, you can acclimate most of them to room conditions with just sort of careful, gentle, you know, introduction. But I have pump spray bottles as well, I love them, but I'm never going to tell somebody to get one of those to humidify their plants, it's not going to work. Even humidifiers, like the actual machines that humidify your room. I tried it for a while, I had a humidifier in my room. There were a couple of occasions where I had one that wasn't automated and I put it on and be like, right, leave that on for a couple of minutes. And then I fucked off and done something else for three hours and come back and my room's a literal cloud. I can't see the, I can't, I'm not joking.
Jane Perrone (30:37) That would be me, that would be so me.
Tea Francis (30:38) I've got photos. I've got photos. I couldn't see the back wall of my bedroom. I walked in there and it was like I'd just stepped off the plane into Florida and it's like, humidity has hit me like a slap in the face.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (30:47) Your wallpaper's peeling off the wall.
Tea Francis (30:49) And I'm like, 'well, this isn't good because I've got a shit ton of stuff in here that's going to go mouldy if this keeps up.' So having a humidifier in your room to get, you know, to elevate the ambient humidity for houseplants is not a good idea from a sort of health and wellbeing perspective. You know, we don't keep our homes humid like that for ourselves. It's better to acclimate your plants to your ambient humidity in your house as it is-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (31:12) Which you can do in a terrarium.
Tea Francis (31:13) -rather than try... Well, that's why I like terrariums, because if you've got plants that really don't want to acclimate to drier conditions, then you keep them in a handy dandy sealed little glass box and you can look at it doing really well in there. But-
Jane Perrone (31:22) Absolutely.
Tea Francis (31:23) No, the pump spray things I like for, know, things like Liquid Gold Leaf's product, Photo Plus, you know, that's a good one. If you've got plants in sort of darker areas or variegated plants, anything that needs a bit of a boost with, you know, photosynthetic activity within itself. Photo Plus is a good one, so I use my spray bottles for applying that. But also, like you said, with your snake plants and stuff, just for just drenching them. I'll put mine in the bath and drench them with a thing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (31:48) To wash them.
Tea Francis (31:48) To wash the dust off and to, you know, blast away any little spider mites or thrips or anything like that.
Jane Perrone (31:52) There's nothing more depressing than a dusty house plant.
Tea Francis (31:56) Oh I know.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (31:57) No, there is. There's a dusty fake houseplant.
Jane Perrone (31:59) Right, yeah, let's get on to this. Because- Do you have something here that you want to show us? Oh look at it, it's so beautiful though. What is it meant to be? Is it meant to be a fern?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (32:11) I don't even know what that's meant to be. It a little bit like a Hoya.
Jane Perrone (32:15) I've heard this story multiple times though about people who have literally had a plastic plant that they've been watering and taking care of for months before they realise that it's actually plastic, which is- quite disturbing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (32:27) But seriously, is there anything more depressing? Honestly...
Jane Perrone (32:31) In the defence, I mean, I never thought I'd be defending a plastic plant. In defence of that particular one, that's actually quite, relative to the usual look, that's actually not too bad.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (32:40) Cover that in a layer of dust. That is going look like shit.
Jane Perrone (32:43) Yes. No I'm not saying that I want one at all, but I- I- my attitude is always with plastic plants is if you've got an area where you can't have real plants, then have an artwork, have a sculpture, have something else.
Tea Francis (32:47) It's a care instruction.
Jane Perrone (32:58) What is on the label? Yeah.
Tea Francis (33:00) It's just- it's a barcode. If that had care instructions on it I would have absolutely lost it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:03) I'm 100 % with you. Why have a plastic plant when you could have a ceramic? Something or other?
Jane Perrone (33:07) Yes, a beautiful piece of pottery or something.
Tea Francis (33:10) Taxidermy!
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:11) Taxidermy.
Jane Perrone (33:12) Yeah well, OK. Yeah. Maybe not for some people. I mean- I-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:16) But I just think- think human. It makes me just think humans are so weird. That's what it makes me think. I mean, yeah.
Tea Francis (33:23) So we were talking about dust. There's quite a lot of dust on that bad boy, I've just cleaned the sofa.
Jane Perrone (33:28) I mean that could also benefit from the pump sprayer.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:30) I think this is a downside of houseplants becoming more mainstream.
Jane Perrone (33:34) Yes.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:36) Is- is- is- And I see them chucked out as well. I see them chucked away in skips and then I just think, wow.
Jane Perrone (33:41) That's never going anywhere. That's the other depressing thing, isn't it? That plastic is never going anywhere. That's going to be here at the end of time.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (33:49) And also they bleach and then they start looking really weird. I've seen somebody that's got fake window box stuff that's bleached and it looks horrific. Horrific.
Jane Perrone (33:58) Even fake hedges. You can get whole hedges that are fake.
Tea Francis (34:00) Oh my god, those bloody awful balls, the spheres of like flowers-
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (34:04) Oh my god. The spheres. Yeah.
Tea Francis (34:06) -and they're so lightweight that whenever there's a breeze it's like swinging around violently on the front of your house.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (34:11) You're not fooling anybody with your balls.
Tea Francis (34:12) It's like, 'what the fuck?'
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (34:12) Thats- that's fact.
Jane Perrone (34:13) No, no, your balls are fake.
Tea Francis (34:15) Put your balls away.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (34:16) Put your blue balls.
Tea Francis (34:17) Yes.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (34:18) Because they turn blue.
Tea Francis (34:19) Put your balls away. Yeah, it's true though, they do.
Jane Perrone (34:24) Yeah, yeah, let's hide it away. Well, we're moving on now. We're talking about a subject that I love to get into, which is plants I hate. This is a question I ask listeners on the Meet The Listener slot. Plants that you can't get along with. We call it the Plantagonist. I'm going to come right out and say, if the plant that I simply wish would fuck off and not come back, it's Ficus lyrata. Unless, unless the fiddle leaf fig is actually growing as a tree in Africa. That's allowed.
Tea Francis (34:57) Or in a very specific house in North London.
Jane Perrone (34:59) Or maybe in a Florida... Or maybe in Florida in front of a massive like floor length ceiling window. I mean, I just don't like the leaves. I just don't like the leaves.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (35:10) I am with you on that.
Tea Francis (35:12) I hate the ones that are just like one stem with like a bunch of way oversized-
Jane Perrone (35:17) 20ft tall.
Tea Francis (35:17) -paddles like sticking off it. And I'm like...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (35:21) It's not a vibe, is it?
Tea Francis (35:22) Is that supposed to look nice? Cos it doesn't.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (35:24) And there's fake ones of those as well, which is so depressing. Because if you hate that plant and then you see it's fake as well. Oh my god. Double whammy.
Jane Perrone (35:29) And I also think it's not the best of the ficus. Like, there's other nicer ficus that you can have.
Tea Francis (35:35) There are really. It's such a diverse genus. I don't think a lot of people realise that there are so many different types. But yeah, I mean, if you want a tree type ficus, there are some really beautiful ones that are just so much nicer to look at than the Lyrata. And it's not just the leaves either. I find that the, what are they called, the cataphylls that the leaves come out of when they go all crispy and brown and they're still on the, they just look really messy. But then I find a lot of begonias do that too. And I quite like a begonia.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (36:04) Leading onto begonias, that's my one.
Jane Perrone (36:06) Okay.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (36:07) I love begonias. Like I've got two here. Let me show you. I got these from my friend Mo and looking beautiful, right? Don't you think?
Jane Perrone (36:15) Yes.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (36:15) But for no reason, it will just start to melt. I'll get to a certain point with all of them and I'll go, look at me, check me out and my beautiful begonias. And then I'll go for fuck's sake. It's doing it again. I've got two here.
Tea Francis (36:30) Mo, it's not your fault.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (36:32) It's not your fault. love you Mo. And these are so beautiful. But can you see it's just, it's been going great guns and now it's dropping these leaves here. And I'm like, why? I've not done anything to you apart from give you everything that you could possibly want.
Jane Perrone(36:44) There's only a few begonias that I've found that don't do that. And they are Beefsteak, beefsteak begonia.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (36:54) Maculata?
Jane Perrone (36:55) Maculata, yeah, the cane begonias, yeah. But beefsteak begonia and thurstonii are two really good classic heritage, heritage begonias that have been around since 1820 something. And those two are really good. I find they are super tough. They've got really good, chonky stems and they just keep going.
Tea Francis (37:18) I like my terrarium begonias.
Jane Perrone (37:19) Yeah, I mean put them in a terrarium, I think that's...
Tea Francis (37:23) But saying that, I think it was last year I had a whole load of begonias on my bathroom windowsill and they looked fucking stunning. I had maculata, had tamaya, I had luxurians, I had fuchsioides, I had...
Jane Perrone (37:37) She's just throwing out the begonia names here.
Tea Francis (37:39) I had all these, know, and I took a group shot of them. It's on my Instagram somewhere and it's like this beautiful begonia forest. Every single one of those motherfuckers was just like, you're enjoying this, you? Well, hey...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (37:53) I'm off now. Goodbye.
Jane Perrone (37:57) You always take cuttings. Always take plenty of cuttings.
Tea Francis (37:59) Thisis the thing, I did. The only one I have left of that particular line up is the maculata. And I'm just looking at it thinking, you're trying to die.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (38:06) But that's the thing about them. If you take cuttings, then you only ever have a very small plant. And then it gets to a certain size and it's doing this. Why are you doing this?
Jane Perrone (38:18) Yeah, it's really annoying. I mean, I have got to the point where I've got better at begonia care through using wick watering and just a very free draining substrate, very free draining substrate. And watering a lot, which is hard for me because I'm not, that's not my vibe.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (38:33) OK so maybe a self watering pot is what I need to do, do you think?
Tea Francis (38:36) I think the other thing with begonias is, I mean, consistency with soil moisture and all that kind of stuff is definitely important, but feeding is important with them too because they require regular feeding but they can't tolerate the usual sort of levels of feed that we would give normal houseplants. So you'd have to give them a half strength feed, but give it to them regularly. So you're basically like drip feeding them the nutrients because they don't do so well if you dump a load in there and you know, I sounded really wrong but if you ...you know, you chuck a load of like normal strength, normal dilution plant feed in there they don't seem to like that and I... this is why I'm leaning more towards terrariums now. I'm not great with consistency when it comes to watering regimens and like feeding regimens and everything like that. If I remember, I'll do it. You know, and I think begonias, they'll do great for a while, but as soon as they get to a point where they're not getting the absolute perfect combination of moisture and like moisture retention and drainage and feed, they start doing stupid things.
Jane Perrone (39:36) There you go. Well, I mean, that is, I didn't know that about the feed, but that's useful to know. But yeah, they're always going to have that cycle. And I look back at photos of mine, I'm like my Masoniana. I was like, looked amazing last summer. And now it's just like, it's not so great.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (39:50) I a lovely Luxurians as well. That's no more.
Jane Perrone (39:53) Luxurians is, I haven't managed to get Luxurians through the winter. That's the palm looking one.
Tea Francis (39:58) The funniest thing is when I bought mine, it was beautiful. It was doing really well. I got it from Harriet's Plants and she's like, oh you're going to love this. You know, if you take good care of it, you'll have a tree in no time. was like, yes, I'm going to have a tree. It's going to be great. Mm-mm. Nope.
Jane Perrone (40:13) I got it to about three foot tall and then winter time it just goes, ooo, powering down. This is not happening! Well, I mean, maybe somebody out there has got the answer for us, but I think that's my, my key. And this is what I'm kind of more and more doing is just finding those things that really, really are… work for me and going large on those. Any other plantagonists we want to mention here? Tea?
Tea Francis (40:38) I'm going to do this in reverse and I'm going to tell you about one that I absolutely love now that I hated with a passion before and that's Hoyas. I hated Hoyas.
Jane Perrone (40:49) You're speaking my language now.
Tea Francis (40:53) But listen, okay, so this is the thing, right? If you had asked me two, three years ago, what is your least favourite houseplant? What do you just really not get out of Hoyas? What the hell is it with Hoyas? Because I'd always see them quite sort of bushy around the pot and then they'd send out those long runners with nothing going on. like, that just looks stupid to me. It looks like a plant in reverse, all the leaves around the pot and the stems are sticking out and reaching for the sky. Like it just looks stupid. And then a friend of mine sent me a cutting of a Hoya carnosa from his grandmother's heirloom plant. And I was like, yeah, sure. Okay. I'll give it a shot. And it started to send out those runners. And after a little while, started to, like new leaves started to grow from them. was like, okay. And I, took me a while being used to aroids and other such things. Took me a little while to get used to Hoyas and like their growth pattern and like where the nodes are and what, you know, where a new shoot will come from and all this kind of stuff. And so it took me a little while to get used to it. But then when I'd had that Hoya carnosa for a little while and I started seeing it growing and I was, you know, getting excited about seeing the new growth, those runners that it was sending out all of a sudden became something I was quite excited to see and not something that was just like, what the hell? I just want to cut that off, you know? And so then I got a few more. And now I would say that Hoyas are my favourite plant that I've got. Hoyas, terrarium begonias and just like obscure little terrarium plants, Selaginella of various different varieties and just the odd little thing here, but Hoyas have taken over for me.
Jane Perrone (42:18) Am I allowed to have an evil laugh here at this point?
Tea Francis (42:21) Yeah, please do.
Jane Perrone (42:25) Mwhahaha! My Hoya plan is coming together. Yeah. I mean, I agree with everything you said. I mean, you're right. Those weird vines. For me, what helped me appreciate it is realizing the purpose of that, that the plant's being actually really clever in putting out as an epiphyte, as a plant that's growing in a tree, it doesn't want to put resources into throwing out a load of leaves until it knows that that vine is going to have somewhere to lodge. And then at that point it goes, yep, I'm going to, I found a spot now and I'm going to add some leaves to this whippy thing.
Tea Francis (42:57) It's amazing.
Jane Perrone (42:58) That's pretty darn clever if you ask me.
Tea Francis (42:58) I've got a Hoya curtisii in my Ikea cabinet that I put in there because it was doing really badly. I got it from Spiralis plants, which was one of my favourite plant shops. So they're out of business now, which is a real shame. But I bought this in a hanging pot and it's got a really cute leaf shape and like lots of splash on the leaves and a really nice texture as well. So it was really pretty little plant. And I had it hanging in my bedroom window from the curtain rail and it was just going yellow. The stems were just going yellow and it was really unhappy. They were just falling off. I've got to do something to try and save it. So I put it in my greenhouse cabinet and it's under very strong light and it's in constant decent humidity gets watered when it gets watered. And I started seeing all of these new shoots growing from it. It's brilliant. It's happy. It's taken over now. And I didn't realize until it reached out and grabbed hold of some of the moss poles and things that were in there and started shingling up them. I didn't realize that they have this incredible growth pattern where they will flatten out their leaves on the surface of what they're growing on. And that thing is hanging on a shelf lower down in the cabinet, but it's gone all the way up the back, it's grown all the way up the sides, all to the top. It's all coming up through the shelf above it, in between all the other plants. That thing has gone absolutely wild.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (44:16) I need your advice both of you because remember we picked up that really old Hoya. It's 42 years old and it was beautiful, it? And it was on a trellis and like you say, the leaves were all kind of flattened. But I don't have that set up and it's just trailing off and it's putting out the whippy things you're talking about because it's looking for something to grab. What am I going to do? How am I going to make it climb? It's massive.
Jane Perrone (44:38) I mean, my big Hoyas. I mean, this is the thing with Hoyas. Like again, you'll be aware of this Tea, but you get these two leaf cuttings and you think, yes. And you see people have them in an Ikea cabinet and it'll be like all these little pots with two leaf cuttings, and a more seasoned Hoya grower, you're sort of laughing to yourself thinking, ha ha ha, yes, you have no idea what beast that's going to try to become. With bigger Hoyas, I'm not a moss pole person. I kind of hate moss poles. I don't have any moss poles in my house.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (45:11) They're ugly, aren't they?
Jane Perrone (45:13) I have them up growing up obelisks. I have like garden obelisks basically. Which isn't perfect to be honest, but you can kind of like trail them round, and use something to attach the vines.
Tea Francis (45:28) Yeah, all of mine are on trellises like that. So I've shown you Lush Plant before, haven't I? Lush Plant UK on Etsy. They make 3D printed trellises and stuff. And I bought one.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (45:37) That's exactly what I need.
Tea Francis (45:40) I saw one. The first one I saw was spiderweb shaped. And I was like, oh my God, I love that. So I bought one for that Carnosa and they send them with these heart-shaped clips so you can clip the plant to the trellis. And I mean, they're small, so it's not something that you would need for your...
Sarah Gerrard Jones (45:53) I'm not really into heart-shaped stuff.
Tea Francis (45:54) No, no, no, but you know, the clips, you don't see them. But like, there's all these different shaped trellises. So for my smaller Hoyas, and to start them off, I love those. But for your big Carnosa, you're going to be looking at something like bamboo, like the U-shaped bamboo stake things that you can kind of twine it around.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (46:09) I'd love to have it like they had it in their house. It looks so beautiful when all the leaves flatten out.
Tea Francis (46:15) It was literally a trellis on their wall.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (46:18) Yeah, it's beautiful. But then those trellises that you get, garden trellises, are so ugly. I need somebody to make me a see-through plastic trellis.
Tea Francis (46:25) It's going to be me, isn't it?
Jane Perrone (46:26) Hand over to Swiss Army knife lady over here.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (46:29) A see-through trellis that I can put on the wall that you don't even see. That's what I need.
Jane Perrone (46:34) Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm glad you're getting into Hoyas. I mean, I'm very bitter that your curtisii is doing so well. I have had curtisii for six years and it's literally done nothing. I need to put it in a terrarium.
Tea Francis (46:47) You would not believe what it's done. It's not sent out a single peduncle yet. I've never seen a flower from it, but my God, is going absolutely... If I just leave it alone, it will 100 % engulf that entire cabinet. It's absolutely mad what it's doing in there. It's incredible.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (47:06) Do you have an Ikea cabinet?
Jane Perrone (47:07) No. Again…
Tea Francis (47:10) Is this like where you're pissed off with yours? You’re like do you want an Ikea cabinet?
Sarah Gerrard Jones (47:13) Cause my begonias don't like mine.
Jane Perrone (47:17) Well, I, again, like, if this fits into the category of, "I ain't got time for that"!. Like I don't, like I've got a lot of, I'm at the point now where I've got a lot of plants and I, I'm trying to divest myself because I want to have plants that I absolutely love and enjoy, but I have too many.
Tea Francis (47:32) To be fair, that's what the cabinet allows me to do. Cause I don't do anything to it.
Jane Perrone (47:38) Yeah. That's the thing.That's the thing for me is that I need to divest myself of plants that I'm not enjoying because I just...
Sarah Gerrard Jones (47:43) Knowing you, thought that might be a spider.
Tea Francis (47:48) As if I would! There's a dead begonia leaf, you can have that back.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (47:50) Oh my God! Don’t do that!
Jane Perrone (47:52) Yeah, that would be a turn up for the books. Suddenly she flings spiders across the podcast studio at the arachnophobe.Yeah, I just need to divest myself of things that I'm not… Like I need to slightly Marie Kondo. know she's kind of slightly changed her…
Sarah Gerrard Jones (48:07) She'd be horrified at our houses. Horrified.
Jane Perrone (48:09) I just, I just have too many things and too many things that aren't bringing me enough pleasure. So I need to do something about that. I mean, Sarah, this is a, probably a bit of a corollary of what you do is that you rescue plants. So you end up with the nature of your brand is that you're rescuing plants,
Ssrah Gerrard-Jones (48:29) I mean, I didn’t think that through, I? No, you didn't think that through. But tell me, I need to know. I need some granular detail about some of these rescues. Like when it goes wrong, when it goes right, some good, some bad. Give me some stories.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (48:42) Okay. Well, I have a Christmas cactus that I rescued from a house clearance. It was just advertised as, what do you call those? Not jardinière, what are those French kind of stands? Jardinière. It was just advertised as they were selling that, but in it was this incredible... Christmas cactus, true Christmas cactus, but it looked very sad. Turns out it had been in a house where somebody passed away. I went to collect it. Huge, but very, I hate saying the word, but flaccid, very flaccid cladodes. Very flaccid cladodes. Flaccid cladodes.
Tea Francis (49:21) Flaccid cladodes, tell me more!
Jane Perrone (49:24) My gosh, we're getting into... I gave that... Some people will pay good money for this kind of talk.
Tea Francis (49:29) Flaccid cladode content. Subscribe to my OnlyFans for more flattened cladodes content.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (49:33) Some tapping here on the microphone? That went wrong.
Jane Perrone (49:39) It's alright. Keep going.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (49:44) I gave it really good trim. It flowered. Amazing. Looked incredible, but never really took off or looked great. And since then I repotted it. Oh my God. Thought I'd killed it. Bear in mind, this is like 30 years old.
Tea Francis How did you even do that?
Sarah Gerrard Jones It looked appalling after I repotted it.
Jane Perrone (50:01) I bet the potting mix was like concrete.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (50:03) Yeah, it was. It was literally solid. And I thought, well, I'll be doing a great favourite. It looked marvellous once I've done this. It looked like absolute shit. Thought I'd lost it. I put it outside. It started looking a bit better, but never great. It of looked a bit bleached outside, too much light. Then it got mealybugs. So that was... That's good. For fuck's sake. I think I've got on top of the mealy bugs now and actually people have always said when you have a Christmas cactus and it's happy, leave it in that spot. Well, it's not been happy anywhere. So I literally put it in a room where it doesn't really get that much light and lo and behold, it looks marvellous now. It's not no longer flaccid. It's looking a lot more chunky and it's growing upwards rather than downwards. So I've been on a real journey with that plant and it's not been easy and it causes me a lot of stress. But I think we're getting there now and now I'm going to leave it exactly where it is. And it's in a room with no other plants. So hopefully now the mealybugs have gone. I don't think it will be attacked again, fingers crossed.
Jane Perrone (51:04) Imean, this is the point in which I get all really negative Nellie and go, "but are they really gone, Sarah"? Are they not just hiding waiting to come out?
Tea Francis (51:11) That's just the fear. That's the fear that comes along with having dealt with a pest infestation like that. You're always like…
Sarah Gerrard Jones (51:20) That's the really horrible thing about rescuing plants because a lot of them are really old. And then I think, they’re coming to my house probably to get mealybugs and probably to look like shit. But that's probably been my worst one, the most difficult one that literally requires so much investment time-wise.
Jane Perrone It’s worth it when it flowers though, right?
Sarah Gerrard Jones Yeah, stunning. And now it's looking great, but it has taken two years.
Jane Perrone But I do think that with those Christmas and Easter cacti, they often do look like shit when they're not flowering. They don’t always look great,
Sarah Gerrard Jones (51:51) And they look shit after they flower because it's taken so much energy and they're like, I'm done. Just leave me to die. But no, it's looking, it's looking all right now.
Jane Perrone That's really good.
Tea Francis I killed mine.
Sarah Gerrard Jones Well done.
Tea Francis Yeah, I killed it all the way dead.
Sarah Gerrard Jones Good work. Yeah, I don't know how much I don't, I genuinely, how did I do that? I don't know. I mean, they're not actually the easiest, I have to say. I don't think they are the easiest.
Tea Francis (52:19) Bearing in mind that as far as plants are concerned, I cut my teeth on carnivorous plants. everything, wet, sodden, soaking, boggy, the time except winter. And then you hand me something that does not want a lot of water. I'm sorry, this does not compute. This just does not compute.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones But yeah, as far as space in my house goes, it is becoming a problem because I find it really hard to say no, especially when things like that 42 year old Hoya, that someone said, please, really, really want you to have it. I want it to go to a good home. I can't say no. Where am I going to put it? And then it becomes a bit stressful.
Tea Francis Part of it's in my room and it's lovely.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones That's true. But I don't want to give the really special ones away is the problem. So I'm just going have to move house. It's as simple as that.
Jane Perrone You're like that meme of like the tiny house with the massive greenhouse attached to it. This is my future home.
Tea Francis See, every time I see that meme, it's always like, this is my house and this is my fart room. So obviously I am on the wrong side of Instagram, aren't I? Like that's every time I see it, that's what that is. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you.
Jane Perrone (53:17) That's very strange.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones I definitely already need a bigger greenhouse. Yeah. then they all need to come inside in winter.
Jane Perrone Obviously. I mean, how do we actually have jobs? this is a full time. I mean, this is why I'm kind of looking forward to retirement. I always think, gosh, when I'm retired, I'm just going to be in my element, just looking after plants.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Do you sometimes feel, is there any days you wake up and go, I fucking hate plants?
Jane Perrone Yeah, I actually have. Root mealybugs have taken me to that place. And, I think the trouble is, I mean, it's an interesting thing about, we touched on this earlier about like the whole, "you can't have too many plants" idea, which I really object to, as I've said many times before, in that, like you really can. And it can really turn a beautiful hobby into something quite depressing.
Tea Francis It turns into a chore. I set up a full-size greenhouse in my basement for my aroids because I had philodendrons in my greenhouse cabinet. I had philodendrons.
Jane Perrone This is a very common story though, isn't it? Loads of people did this.
Tea Francis Yeah. I mean, I had philodendrons in my greenhouse cabinet, the IKEA cabinet that were going to outgrow that very quickly. And I thought, well, I’ve got things like Philodendron melanochrysum in there, which I want to see really big mature leaves on. I was like, well, I'm not going to get that in my bedroom or my bathroom. So I've got space down in the basement. I'll set up one of those just cheap, like pop-up, like Wendy house type greenhouses. It was four by six foot. Yeah, I think it four by six foot or six by six foot, something like that. Big enough for me to walk into. And so I set it all up. I put a tarp down on the ground to make sure that it was moisture.
Sarah Gerrard Jones (54:56) Can I just say, she put this in her dad's office.
Tea Francis No, my dad's office is in the basement. you know, full disclosure, when my last relationship went to shit, I moved back in with my parents. They've got a really nice house and a lot of space. So I ain't leaving. They're stuck with me now. I'm not going anywhere.
Jane Perrone They’re very tolerant. Clearly.
Tea Francis Well, the thing is, that... could have put a greenhouse in your office. Yeah, sure, darling. no, he was away. He came back. He came back and there was a greenhouse in there. And I was like, yeah, sorry about it. But anyway, so I had a lot of stuff in there that was doing really well.I mean, and also the good thing about having a greenhouse down there was that when I did have problems with pests in there, like thrips or anything else, I'd get something from Tessa and I'd just wang it in there like a bomb, like Prius thrips, bugs that eat thrips. I'd just get a load of those, chuck it in there, shut the door, be like, right, good luck chaps. And then I'd come back in a week and see what was going on, nary a thrips in sight. So it was much easier to keep pests under control, but it wasn't working the way I wanted it to. And I'm trying to, you know, I've got an expensive light, I've got a humidifier in there, I've got all of this stuff, I'm feeding them, you know, Liquid Gold Leaf, I'm feeding them, no, was only feeding them liquid gold leaf, but I'm giving them everything that I could possibly give them. You know, I've got these nice moist moss poles for the ones to climb up if they want it and they're all just like, it's like they're chucking the middle finger up at me and they're like, nah, fuck you, it's not enough.
Jane Perrone (56:14) At that point …This is what I kind of try to get around to with my houseplants is that I'm kind of thinking, what was point of that?
Tea Francis Well quite. When I see the new leaves coming through and even with optimal humidity and good soil moisture and like root networks and everything and looking really healthy, really great and I'm doing everything I possibly can and those fucking leaves are still getting caught and not coming out properly, not emerging properly. I'm like, what more do you - have I got to come down here and go full Johnny on you and start wanking it off to get it to come out of its fucking thing? And I don't know what I'm supposed - Hey, Johnny, how's it going? - I’m not sure what I'm supposed to do with that, you know? It takes all of the joy out it.
Jane Perrone What enjoyment were you getting out of it?
Tea Francis None.
Jane Perrone It was an aesthetic thing. You weren't getting aesthetics out of these plants. I I did a talk with a conversation with Matt Pottage and I learned a lot from Matt Potage in that talk. And I realized that, you know, he's very brutal. So Matt Pottage was the curator at Wisley. He's really into houseplants. He's been on On The Ledge before.And his attitude is, if it doesn't look amazing, it's not because it's not, it's going out of my house. I'm starting to come around to that way of thinking.
Tea Francis (57:26) Absolutely, 100%. So when I made the decision to dismantle that greenhouse and just sack that idea off, I felt so much better about it because to be fair, I hadn't invested a whole lot of money into it. The greenhouse itself cost me about 40 pounds, the humidifier I already had. Most of the plants that were in there were cuttings that I'd either got from plant swaps or had taken from plants that I'd bought in a bargain section of something or other or whatever, or bought as little baby plants and grown on. So there wasn't, it wasn't like I'd invested -haha "invested" - a whole load of money into super rare plants or anything. I would say the most expensive plant that was in that greenhouse was probably cost me about 40, 50 pounds, but that was because of the size of it, not because it was anything special. So, you know, it was a lot of propagations and stuff in there. it just all started looking really shit and none of it was going the way I'd wanted it to. I'd had all these ideas that these leaves were going to grow really big and beautiful and mature because they had this lovely tropical greenhouse environment and it was not happening like that at all. I'm not going to sit in here for the 12 to 16 hours of the day that this light is on and baby my plants through their whole existence.
Jane Perrone Or even sit there and enjoy them. You can't sit there and have the pleasure out of them.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Just zipping yourself into your greenhouse in your basement.
Tea Francis I mean, I did do that sometimes. I'm not going to lie, you if I needed to get away from everybody, no one's going to come looking for me.
Jane Perrone Like, I think there are a lot of secondhand. plastic greenhouses and secondhand IKEA cabinets up on Facebook marketplace right now. So tell me more about this. You've, you've, doesn't work for you?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (58:58) No, it does. But does it work that well? I'm not sure. Yeah. I, I did buy it so I could have plants that require a higher humidity and bigger ones, but actually it's got a shelf in it. They can't grow that tall. Bloody begonias, you know…
Tea Francis (59:10) It's definitely a trial and error thing that because mine has had so many different types of plants in it and some have done really well for a while and then sort of dropped off because as they've gotten larger and closer to the lights, it's not been working. I think it's been a lot of trial and error. But now I seem to have hit the sweet spot. And that is Hoyas. The Hoyas love it. They love it. And I'm getting blooms and I'm getting loads of new growth. because I can choose where I put them, I'm getting a lot of like selective sun stress and stuff, know, on certain different types. So it's just looking so lovely in there now because I've decided, right, well Hoyas seem to like it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Will the thrips come back?
Tea Francis (59:49) No, there are thrips in there and because there's thrips in there, I have sacrificial anthuriums in there. So are there sacrificial anthuriums.
Jane Perrone That’s the best thing to do with them, controversial view there!
Tea Francis No, seriously, anthuriums can kiss my ass. So now, like, they go in the greenhouse cabinet as a sacrifice to the thrips, because I can't get rid of the thrips completely.
Jane Perrone I mean, it sounds a little bit illegal, that does. I mean, bait anthuriums, it's not very ethical, is it?
Tea Francis I've got an anthurium … So many people are going to want to kill me for this and I can't wait. I've got an Anthurium clarinervium in there. I've got an Anthurium... What's that climbing one that I got? I can't remember. …polyschistum and then I've got an Anthurium warocqueanum in there and an Anthurium veitchii. So I've got a king and a queen in there that I was…. I was coveting them for ages, but the thrips absolutely love them.
Jane Perrone So they get drawn to those plants and then at some point you just whip them out and...
Tea Francis(1:00:43) No, they stay in there. They can just stay in there. The thrips can have them. The thrips can have them.
Jane Perrone It means the thrips don't attack the other plants?
Tea Francis I never see thrips on... I've never seen a thrips on a Hoya. Never. I have never once seen a thrips on any of my Hoyas.
Jane Perrone (1:00:54) No, I mean, I've had thrips and I've never seen any of go on Hoyas. I don’t think they’re interested.
Tea Francis I've never seen them on the Begonias that are in there. I've never seen them on... What else have I got in there? I've got... for goodness sake, I can't remember. I've got a couple of Alocasia in there. Young Alocasia. Got an Alocasia melo, an Alocasia Frydek and an Alocasia... sar… sar… Yucatan Princess, whatever. And every now and then I might see one on an Alocasia, but they don't do any damage to them. They're not bothered.
Jane Perrone And this is reason why I don't grow Anthuriums. Because life is too short.
Tea Francis Absolutely. Well, those three that are still in the cabinet are there because they're... oh there's a Jacklyn in there too. So they're all doing all right and I don't do anything to them. I water them every now and then when I water everything else and that's it. But the thrips...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (1:01:45) You this is healthy attitude towards pests, I think. Is living with them, I think…
Tea Francis Yeah, I don't want to be using pesticides. I don't want to be using, I can't because I've got animals in my room that pesticides will kill. I keep spiders, I keep exotic cockroaches, I keep all kinds of stuff. I've got snakes in there.
Jane Perrone (1:02:02) This is a whole other podcast right here. We'll get into this in some other time.
Tea Francis I can't use pesticides. And so if I can...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Bait plants is a new thing, I love it.
This is a new concept on me, but I'm here for it. It's the only reason why I'd buy an Anthurium, quite frankly.
Tea Francis Yeah, just get yourself a cheap...
Jane Perrone We are going to get so much hate from the Anthurium people.
Tea Francis I'll take it. Bring it on. Give me all your Anthurium.
Jane Perrone I mean, what I did want to do is I wanted to put you both in a position of power. Just to imagine, just close your eyes and imagine you have been appointed the Queen slash democratically elected president of houseplants.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones But wait, aren't I already?
Jane Perrone Well, yeah, you are already obviously, Sarah. What are we going to do? What's our manifesto to change the world of indoor gardening? Like what do we need to do to make houseplant as a hobby a better experience?
Tea Francis (1:02:57) I've got something I'd like to venture forth for that one.
Jane Perrone Does it involve Anthuriums?
Tea Francis No, it involves Instagram.
Jane Perrone Okay. Okay. I'm ready.
Tea Francis I would like... mandatory fact checking to be implemented before people start making their reels telling you to do this, that and the other. there's very much left though. Well, no, but I mean, you know.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Who's moderating all this by the way?
Tea Francis Okay, okay. You know how you have, if you're on Instagram, if you're advertising a product, you are, you are obliged to put in your hashtags, add, or to make it clear to your audience that it's a paid promotion. Well, I think that you should be made to make it abundantly clear that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about if you don't know what the fuck you're talking I think it should be transparent. think if you're going to go on Instagram and start telling everybody what to do and how to do it, you should put hashtag, I don't have a fucking clue what I'm talking about. If you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about, because people see all of this stuff. And if they see numbers and they think, well, they must know what they're talking about because all these people are following them. It's like the five minute crafts thing, right? We've all seen five minute crafts and how absolutely fucking absurd they are. Well, there's a lot of crossover in the whole plant scene with five minute crafts. You know, it's like here, take a banana, cram a strawberry inside it, bury it in an egg and before you know it, you've got a lemon tree. You know what I mean? You see a lot of that and it's just like all of this blatant misinformation and it's, I don't know what it is, it's click farming or if it's like...
Jane Perrone (1:04:17) You talking about Sarah again now?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones I feel a bit under attack.
Jane Perrone These big Instagram accounts.
Tea Francis (1:04:26) No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Cause I mean, it's not so much about, you know, showing people what works for you is fine. But it's these people who just like, I've got a poster reel today, otherwise I'm not going to get any views. So what can I do?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones How about dancing with your plants?
Tea Francis Yeah, I know. going to make an arrangement of these fucking 15 plants that don't need anywhere near the same conditions at all. Whang them all into a plant and say, look at this beautiful thing I've made. This will last you for the rest of your life.
Jane Perrone Plants that they've literally just bought as well is the other thing to say. That's one of my pet peeves is people who yeah, look at my amazing whatever. you're like, you've literally just, it's just come out of the nursery. And you know, when you've, when you've had plants for a while, you realize again, that actually plants that you have in any home setting, like the plants we've got here today, they don't look the same. Like there's brown tips, there's, there's, there's broken off bits.
Tea Francis (1:05:20) it's just to be expected. It's not going to be perfection all the time.
Jane Perrone Exactly.
Tea Francis But it's not, different. It's about having realistic expectations, but also I think it is just about the responsibility that I feel people should have. If they have got a large following of people, and I'm really not referring to you here, but like if you've got a large following or if you've got a lot of people, if you're a retailer or something and people trust you for information, then I feel that there should be some obligation on you to be giving them correct information or at least disclaiming and saying explicitly, this is my own personal experience. I don't... I can't say for sure that it will work for you, but you know, I just, feel like people who sell products who don't necessarily know exactly what's in their product, but you know, they're like, well, yep, this is what I'm selling and it works. And here are the other things I'm selling with it. And they all work together and you know, they might actually be put to the test and you might find out that they are wildly sort of contradictory of one another. These things that are being sold to work together. And it's just like, people are buying these things. They're spending money on things that they're being told to spend money on, or they're spending all of their time trying to make things work that they've seen on Instagram. A lot of it is completely bogus.
Jane Perrone(1:06:28) Well, that is strand one of our manifesto. Sarah, what's strand two?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (1:06:35) Strand two is, please, can we stop selling Calathea as houseplants?
Jane Perrone Oh, you're really going hard on this.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones I'm going for it. I get, no joke here, I must get 20 messages a day in my DMs, I bought this beautiful looking plant and I don't know what's happened to it. And there comes the photo of a Calathea. And then I just pull my hair out because I think these plants shouldn't really be sold as houseplants. I'm not saying all of them, because there are some species which are better than others, but the really fancy ones with beautiful leaves that people just go, my God, that's incredible. It really is going to last you like a bunch of flowers. It's just not. When have you ever seen a 40 year old calathea?
Jane Perrone (1:07:22) Well, not even in botanic gardens...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones There's a reason for that.
Jane Perrone When you go around like lovely glasshouses and you see like them bedded out, like those are not old plants either often times. They're often times...
Sarah Gerrard-Jones They're like perennials or something, you know, there's something that look nice for a while, but don't expect long-term.
Jane Perrone For some people that kind of probably works. Some people that's the way they buy plants. That's their thing.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones And it works for a retailer because you kill it. And then you're going to buy another one.
Tea Francis Quite honestly, you walk around Kew and you look at some of the ones that are in Kew, in Kew in like glasses, they look like shit. Because they're not even there, even where they've got everything.
Jane Perrone Why doesn’t everyone have a Hoya instead?
Sarah Gerrard-Jones I mean, I'm going to ban Calathea. That's on my manifesto.
Jane Perrone I'm loving it.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (1:08:04) But also a little bit like what he was saying. I feel like if you're going to buy a plant, you need a license, like a driving license, you need to have done a test, a very basic test, like when you go and buy a fish, you get asked questions and they might not allow, if they're a good retailer, they won't allow you to buy that fish. I think it should be the same for houseplants. Because why on earth?
Jane Perrone (1:08:24) Houseplants shops are not going to like this.
Tea Francis Well, seems our diplomatically elected leader is turning into a bit of a dictator now.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Also, supermarkets, you can stop selling houseplants. That’s not allowed.
Tea Francis Yeah, I think we can agree across the board about that.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones You should not be allowed because you don't know what the fuck you're doing and you're not training people to look after them. And that is just a massive waste and that needs to stop. So that's maybe number one on my manifesto.
Jane Perrone Can't agree with you more. Either train up the staff and allow them to have the time to take care of those plants and put them somewhere in the store that they can survive for a bit longer or just don't bloody sell them.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (1:09:04) No, they need to be sold by proper retailers doing it right.
Tea Francis Yeah, we were actually having this conversation the other day. We were in a garden centre and we were looking around.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Shall we name them?
Tea Francis Yeah, why not? We were in Dobbies. And, you know, I mean, I've never seen a mealybug problem on houseplants like we saw in there. It was absolutely unreal.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones The plants were for sale and some poor person is going to buy that plant not knowing what a mealybug is. It's just not fair...
Tea Francis It's not good. But, know, there was a section of sale plants and I would say 90% of what was on that sale plant section was chronically underwatered, really dry, really sad. It all it takes a bit of water. But I was saying to Sarah, I would say that in places like that, and I don't mean Dobbies specifically, because I don't know for sure, but in a lot of plant retailers, like big chains that sell a lot of other things as well, but like garden places that have a houseplant section, I would say the actual houseplant training is probably pretty minimal. And if anyone's going to be getting it, it's probably going to be the managers. It's not going to be your average sales assistant. They're not going to be sent on a plant care intensive. You know, they're not going to be sent off to become houseplant experts because those things are going to be designed to sell within a few days. And then if they don't sell, and they start looking a bit shit, they get chucked in the bin or whatever. So you know, we were saying about how some sort of training, some sort of resource for places that sell things like that, just as a basic, you know, everyday checklist kind of thing for people who work in houseplant section, go and check for signs of pests. This is what you're looking for. If you find them, do this. If your plants are, if it's this type of plant, it needs this amount of water or this kind of light or this kind of soil, you know, basic stuff.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones (1:10:40) Actually, you know what, Burston, our favourite. They did, I loved it. They were using my book as a training manual. So if you got a job at Burston, you get given my book and you'd have to read it cover to cover.
Jane Perrone (1:10:51) There you go. That's actually what you want to say is - my book goes out to everybody and is the manual.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones And you get a test on it and then you can look after the plants.
Jane Perrone (1:11:03) Well, we've set the world to rights, Sarah and Tea. It's been a delight to chat to you for this 300th episode. It's been an absolute blast. And just to remind everyone, as I always do, very boringly, but importantly, to head over to the show notes at janeperrone.com. There's links there for all kinds of stuff for these guys and also the transcript if you want to check what Tea really said. And if you're new to On The Ledge, if you've just come across the podcast, that's where you can find out more about the show, how to support On The Ledge and also listen to the 300-strong back catalogue. Thanks so much to Ladybird Plant Care for sponsoring the show and to Up Top Studios for hosting us today. Thank you, Sarah and Tea and all of you for joining us.You're all legends and it's been a delight. Thank you so much.
Sarah Gerrard-Jones Tea Francis Thank you.
Host Jane Perrone chats to follow plant lovers Sarah Gerrard-Jones and Tea Francis in this special Late Night OTL episode.
What is Late Night On The Ledge?
Imagine a late night TV chat show featuring your favourite guests, lots of chat, a dash of gossip and the odd rant - that’s what you’re getting when you tune into Late Night On The Ledge. This is the first of four Late Night OTL episodes which will run until the start of September. Two will be audio-only, and two will offer video as well.
Please note: this episode features swearing and probably isn’t suitable for younger ears. If you need to find another episode to listen to, why not check out my themed back catalogue?
A shoutout to Up Top Studios for their brilliant work hosting and recording this episode.
This week’s guests
Sarah Gerrard-Jones aka The Plant Rescuer is the RHS Gold medal winning author of The Plant Rescuer 'The Book Your Houseplants Want You to Read', houseplant expert on ITV's Alan Titchmarsh's Gardening Club and writes for BBC Gardeners' World, The Sunday Times, Gardens Illustrated and Living etc. She is Director of Green Rooms Market and the founder of The Plant Rescue Box - an initiative to tackle plant waste in the horticultural industry. You can find Sarah on Instagram @theplantrescuer and TikTok @the_plantrescuer. You can hear an interview with Sarah in On The Ledge episode 186.
Tea Francis aka Tea’s Jungle is often to be found behind the microscope at Green Rooms Market events. She’s a houseplant collector, arachnologist and a taxidermist/artist - take a look at her work on Instagram - @teafrancisart. You can hear her talking about spiders and houseplants in On The Ledge episode 268.
This week’s sponsor
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These natural predators are safe for use around pets and children and will not cause any damage to plants. Many are pest specific and therefore do not harm any beneficial insects. They are very easy to use too, saving you time and doing the job for you.
Ladybird Plantcare is a small, Brighton based business owned and run by Tessa Cobley. Tessa is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to plant pests and the best way to tackle them whether that be in your houseplant collection, veg patch or garden. Visit Ladybird Plantcare now to find out more.
CREDITS
This week's show featured the track Whistle by BenJamin Banger (@benjaminbanger on Insta; website benjaminbanger.com).
