Episode 298: Monstera 'Thai Constellation' - a deep dive with Pretty in Green

My ‘Thai Constellation’, bought in 2018 as a two-leaf plant. Photograph: Jane Perrone

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Transcript

Chris Ernst (00:00) My name is Chris. I am one of the owners of Pretty and Green Plants. I've been growing plants hydroponically for about 18 years now. In the last seven years or so, we switched over to rare aeroids and now I'm growing a lot of plants from tissue culture and doing our own tissue culture in -house.

Jane Perrone (01:20) Sounds awesome Chris. We are here to talk about the wonderful, sometimes controversial topic of Monstera deliciosa. Now I know I think I'm the only person in the world who calls it Monstera not Monstera but hey I'm sticking with it. But I'm really fascinated to dig deep into some of the origin stories of this species. In my book I talk about

Chris Ernst (01:36) Heheheheh

Jane Perrone (01:46) sort of the species, but I don't really get into all these new cultivars, forms, varieties that have come along And wowed the plant world in the last few years. So where do we start with this? Where did this all come from? I know you've gone into this for your own social media, so I'm really looking forward to hearing your take.

Chris Ernst (02:08) Yeah, so we're probably best known for doing plant documentary style videos on YouTube and discovering the origins of something like Monstera Thai Constellation or the Monstera Albo. So from what we can tell, a plant like Monstera Thai Constellation, from the accounts we can tell, it was kind of found off the side of a road in the 1970s in Thailand. And then it was brought into tissue culture in like the mid 2000s.

We spoke with the gentleman who actually named it, but it seems that a lot of these plants are, they're considered natural mutants and they're developed and grown in nature. And then people see them and are like, that's not a normal green or Thai Con or monstera. It's got variation through it. And then they're kind of harvested and then stem propagated or sexually produced or asexually produced. And yeah, brought into cultivation.

Jane Perrone (03:04) So did I get that right that you're saying, because oftentimes Thai constellation is described as being a plant that came out of tissue culture. So is that as far as your research has proved not correct?

Chris Ernst (03:13) Right.

So I was thinking about how to describe this this morning. So the plant is found in nature, but it's multiplied within a tissue culture lab. So one of the biggest misconceptions is that the plant itself is lab created, and I would call it lab multiplied. So yeah.

Jane Perrone (03:30) Right.

Got you. Yeah, because I think I'd assumed that what had happened was that somebody was tissue culturing the plain green species and somehow a mutation came up that was Thai Constellation. I hadn't thought that it could just be, well, actually, like so many tropical plants, that it's just, okay, we've got this plant, we want to scale it up, let's tissue culture it, which is, as you say, two different things, right?

Chris Ernst (04:05) Right. And I think both of those can occur. So as you mentioned, something could mutate at the tissue culture level. And that's something that's actually kind of common, especially in the houseplant world is to get a mutation while you're growing in the agar glass vessel. But it's also common. I spoke with a few growers in Florida that kind of collect these weird mutants. And then there's also what are called seed grown sports, which essentially they grow out.

thousands and if not hundreds of thousands or millions of delicious seeds and one comes up with a weird coloring or weird pattern and then that plant sells for 20 or 30 or 40 thousand dollars.

Jane Perrone (04:48) Right, because this is what's happened in, I mean, I've like, you know, visited different kinds of nurseries for my journalism over the years. And this is what happens with, I don't know, roses or any so many different species we can think of. This is a fairly normal practice. I think maybe just in the houseplant world, lots of people don't know that this is going on and sort of misunderstand how this is occurring. And

think there's some kind of special lab where these things are being created in some weird way. But yeah, as you say, it's like, that's the joy of sexual reproduction via seeds that you get loads of different genetic makeups in each seedling. So that's kind of exciting. And this is why I guess we've ended up with all these, you know, mint and all these different variants of Thai constellation and of monstera more generally.

Chris Ernst (05:41) Right. And actually, even with something like the mint, when we were back in Florida speaking about the history of, say, Kunzo's white monster, which comes out of Japan, that technically, the story goes that that's a species or a cultivar from World War II time. And that was kind of brought into a greenhouse after being recognized on the side of a road.

So a lot of these just kind of pop up in nature, just like they happen in all species of plants and animals. There's mutations through reproductive processes. And also just while they're growing in the wild, there's some theories that heavy metals can also affect a plant and change its genetic makeup. And I guess that could be also described for humans. Say if you live really close to a leaded gas station back in the 1980s, that could change our genetic makeup also, right?

Jane Perrone (06:36) Tell me more about this Kunzo's white monster. I'm guessing it's a monster with a lot of white in those leaves. Is it one of those ones that's super hard because it's going to go brown every time you look at it?

Chris Ernst (06:46) Yes. Yes.

Totally and really struggled to develop roots without the chlorophyll. But it looks a lot like a mint, a mint monstera. It has a very flecking like pattern, but the leaves tend to be very bright white and then we'll have some color, hopefully, eventually, some form of chlorophyll throughout the leaves. But it's a highly sought after plant that stems from Japan and also is now shared worldwide.

Jane Perrone (07:25) This is the thing, isn't it? These plants that once were, in inverted commas, rare, hard to get hold of, very expensive, have gradually, through the processes that we're used to seeing, tissue culture, and also, I guess, some traditional propagation too, eventually all of these plants come down in price, right? I assume the same has happened with the mint monstera, the...

minty green flecked one that you've been mentioning where the price has dropped even on that now is that coming down in price too just like the Ticons elation has?

Chris Ernst (08:01) Yeah, absolutely. And it is that specific plant is through the means of tissue culture. So actually yesterday I was transplanting five or six mints and for the US market, I'm buying from Thailand, but those plants I believe cost me like 80 to $100 per bag tissue culture. And you, you know, it comes in in agar and you have to acclimate it. But there's also problems that exist in the tissue culture world that the ornamental.

houseplant world is starting to grapple with, that the agricultural food production side of the world that has used tissue culture for 30 or 50 years, they've been dealing with for a long time. And that is really like the genetic changes that can occur when a plant is inside tissue culture or it's multiplied too many times. Then you can start getting like little tweaks and little weird things that we sometimes see.

and then some genetic changes below the surface that we can't see that's happening in the plant level.

Jane Perrone (09:05) go slightly off topic here, but it is still relevant. I guess this is why philodendron birkin has all these weird reversions because it's not a very stable variegation. That plant always seems to end up with other green leaves or going back to having red leaves or a combination that isn't quite as advertised. I guess the same happens with, with, you know, plant, there are plants like that, that have this sort of slightly unstable variegation that comes out of tissue culture.

Chris Ernst (09:34) Right, and those plants that something like the Birkin ideally has that it's typically described as like a very like flecking like pattern like you can see in the Birkin very like stripy same with the Tycon but a plant like Monstera albo tends to have these blotchy sort of patterns where it's less stable and those plants are less ideal for tissue culture because you can lose the variegation over time.

Jane Perrone (10:02) Hmm... Yeah.

Chris Ernst (10:03) But ideally it's a good a good Birkin would stick with it But again if you multiply something over and over too many times you can lose the original copy if you will

Jane Perrone (10:15) Let's also just go into the difference or the debate that's out there about Thai constellation, Monstera versus the Albo, it's got other names as well.

I don't think we can say, well, I have a personal preference, but I probably am based on more on what I've grown. Have you got a preference? And can you tell us anything about where the elbow came from? I'm guessing that was again, just a natural mutation that was picked up and multiplied by breeders and nurseries.

Chris Ernst (10:48) Yeah, from what we could tell, we actually haven't done a full documentary on the albo yet because the story is hard to pin down. It does seem, a lot of these mutations seem to come out of Asia. So this plant, the monstera's in general are a plant from Central and South America, mostly Mexico, but they were brought into Japan and Asia in like the 18, 1900s. You can't really figure out exactly where this plant came from.

Jane Perrone (10:57) Mm.

Chris Ernst (11:17) But I might be partial to the Monstera albou because it's not as heavily tissue cultured as something like the Thai Con, But I'm also very partial to the kind of constellation star -like pattering of the Monstera Thai Con.

Jane Perrone (11:35) Yeah, I think they each have their own qualities, don't they? I've got a Thai constellation. I have had albos in the past, but have never kept them for that long to get them really big. I can't, you know, I don't have that much room to have massive plants in my house. But I think each one has their own preferences and everyone has their own personal view on which one is in inverted commas better. But these plants,

generally just were hugely popular and the pandemic magnified everything and in this incredible way, didn't it? What is it do you think about these many different types, what do you think it is about these many monstrous that draws people in and has made them such a must -have plant and subject to such a craze?

Chris Ernst (12:27) Right, so I think it comes back down to the leafy, luscious foliage of the Monstera, just the typical green form that you can get at the supermarket. That was kind of the it plant of like 2018 to 2019, 2020. Maybe before that was the fiddle leaf fig. So if something like a variegated fiddle leaf fig came out and then everyone was locked inside their house, surfing Instagram and YouTube and Facebook,

it probably would have gone, you know, super viral and been highly sought after. And it just happened that I think supply kind of caught up with demand and these Albo farms were ready. And then the Tycon had been in tissue culture since about 2015. So it's kind of the perfect storm of supply was ready. And then people ended up at home and then they were chasing down the Monstera. And then it has patches of white and people.

I mean, I lost my mind too and funny little tidbit, when my wife got me into rare aeroids in 2017, she had a Tycon and she's like, let's get an Albo. And this is peak pandemic. So it was a thousand dollar plan. I'm like, you're out of your mind and you already have an Albo right there. And I pointed to the Tycon installation. So in my earliest days, I actually couldn't tell the difference between a Tycon and an Albo.

Jane Perrone (13:53) Absolutely. aside from the leaf varication, would you say there are structural differences between those two between the elbow and the Thai constellation? Not having grown Thai constellation for, sorry, not having grown elbow for a while. My main observation would be that maybe the albo doesn't quite get so meaty, but that's maybe just because I haven't seen a big one.

Chris Ernst (14:15) No, that's exactly right. The albo just, as you can see, this plant has about 15 leaves on it behind me. And for those people listening only, the Deliciosa, which is the species for the Thai constellation, that plant gets massive, maybe two, three feet across, maybe a meter across in leaf size. Whereas the Monster Albo, it tends to be maybe about a foot to a foot and a half.

There are some larger forms of the Borsegiana, which is the unofficial species, which you shouldn't call this plant because I guess back in the 1970s people said, don't call it that, they're all delicioso. But I think you can see if you look at a 10 leaf Thai constellation versus a 10 leafed albo, as you mentioned, the Thai con will be much, much larger and much thicker. Like it's a chunky plant. It's a big plant.

Jane Perrone (15:13) Yeah, it is. I mean, when I chop mine, I have to get a kind of a bread knife to go through the stem, which is, you know, it's a good, I don't know, it's a good four centimeter diameter, I suppose, at least I suppose. So yeah, that it is, it is a real chunk. And I think also that it's less.

Chris Ernst (15:18) You

Right.

Jane Perrone (15:34) in a way you need you I don't trellis mine mine mine it doesn't even have a moss pole because I cut it back once it gets to a certain size because I don't want it to get any bigger but I don't think it's you need so much trellising at such an early stage as you would do with albo either I don't know if that's your experience as well but it tends to sit better than the albo does in terms of just growing

from the ground as a plant. I don't know if that's just me, but I'm a bit anti kind of putting in loads of structural support for those plants just because I'm lazy. So I prefer Thai constellation for that reason.

Chris Ernst (16:14) I think you're spot on. The albo tends to have very large internodal spacing between the leaves, and that's kind of one of the telltale signs of a small form plant, which would be considered Borsegiona, versus a Delicioso, where you see those nodes really stacking up. And as you mentioned, that makes for a really pretty plant. To my left, out of frame, I have a Thai constellation, not on trellis.

Yet my elbow is exactly on trellis on a moss pole. So exactly my experience too.

Jane Perrone (16:46) Yeah. So I mean, those internodal spaces, just for anyone who doesn't understand that term or hasn't heard it before, it just means the, you know, the node where the leaf joins the stem and the internodal space is just the gap between them. And you're right in Thai constellation, it's so small on mine that sometimes you have, if you want to cut, you have to really get in there because there's just not a gap between those two nodes. Whereas on a regular Monstro Deliciosa and on Albo,

you have a lot, you have a nice big area to work with and you're usually having to trim back right, aren't you, to a node when you're cutting. So yeah, that is another real difference, I think. And again, like no better or worse, just a slightly different style of plant. But I mean, I guess the other thing that I always talk to people about when I'm talking about this plant is just don't be afraid of hacking either of them back because they respond so well, don't they?

Chris Ernst (17:44) Yeah, I think that's one of the secrets of gardening outdoors or indoors. Any plant is any form of cutting, whether it's the lower leaves or rather the lower stems or the upper stems, that's going to stimulate the opposite side of the plant to grow. So you cut the top of a plant, stimulate the lowers, or you cut the lowers to stimulate the uppers. And you're essentially just releasing hormones into the plant to start growing.

Jane Perrone (17:49) Mmm.

Yeah, yeah agreed. Yeah, it's a really good thing because sometimes people are selling these plants because they've got too big and you think well, okay Are you actually if you are selling it because it's too big then? There's a solution which is quite straightforward and certainly my plant as I say, it's just growing a new leaf and for the minute It's okay, but I think probably when the next leaf comes out it's going to be chopped again because I just don't have the room for it to get any any much bigger

that does have a bit of an impact on leaf shape. In fact, interestingly, the new leaf that's just come out has gone backwards. I think it's a bit because it came out, was growing over the winter, but it had the previous leaf had secondary holes, secondary fenestration. So the holes in the leaves are just a real feature of this plant. And usually every successive leaf, you get more, don't you? But on this one, it's gone backwards and it doesn't have that secondary.

set of holes. So that's okay. I'm not really worried about it. But some people get very, you know, obsessed with counting the holes.

Chris Ernst (19:07) Right.

Yeah, and this is it does reset to like a very like teacup size plant or leaf shape leaf size and then will progressively get more and more of the fenestrations which I love. I love a secondary or even a tertiary fenestration inside of a deliciosa leaf and that is a hallmark of a large form plant as opposed to the albo. You'll rarely get those really tiny pinholes in the inside of that middle.

Jane Perrone (19:35) Hmm.

Chris Ernst (19:43) midrib of the leaf, the middle vein.

Jane Perrone (19:46) Yeah, the whole patterns are unique and every leaf on the Thai constellation certainly comes out differently. So, and on Albo as well, it's just a slightly different kind of variegation. But on Thai constellation, it really varies, doesn't it? I have some leaves like the latest one that are just really flecked all over. Then I have other leaves where they've got big sections of white and green. Every leaf comes out a little bit different. There doesn't seem to be any particular rhyme or reason to it that I found anyway.

Chris Ernst (20:15) Right. And I think this is kind of, as we talked a little bit in the pre -show, the differences between the early stage monster Thai Cons, maybe we got ours in 2018 versus the ones that are coming out now. And you can really see the differences in each plant being an individual and having a different kind of fingerprint of its variegation pattern. And each plant will tend to have the same sort of rhythm of.

this style of irrigation and this one and alternate and then kind of restart the cycle. Whereas some plants just have low irrigation their entire lives. And then some plants have very high irrigation and then people call them different things like creme brulee, Monstera cheesecake, and you name it. They've made up a name for it.

Jane Perrone (21:01) Yeah, let's get into these generations of Thai constellation. There's a lot of talk on the old interwebs about this, isn't there? And it can get very confusing. I think you've kind of summed it up already in that, like, when you mass produce a plant to this extent, there are going to be changes to its genetics over time. And I guess that's just what we're seeing in terms of some plants having different patterns of variegation.

Chris Ernst (21:11) Yeah, yeah.

Jane Perrone (21:30) Is there other aspects of their growth that has changed? I mean, I know my Thai constellation from 2018, I had two of them and I sold one a while ago for charity. It is meaty and strong. It's a really like, it's a strong meaty plant.

Has there been a change in sort of in terms of virulence as well as the variegation, do you think?

Chris Ernst (22:01) I think absolutely. I think it would be short sighted of us to think that it hasn't because this happens with every crop that goes through the tissue culture production process. And then they actually use tissue culture to adjust the genetics of a plant for better or for worse. And for things we can see such as a variegation pattern or something like yellow bell peppers, for instance, are actually created.

from the tissue culture process. So that coloring of it or something like a thornless blackberry was created in tissue culture to create the lack of thorns in the fruit. So things are happening on the surface that we can see the variegation leaf morphology like the different leaf shapes. And then I think things are happening below the surface such as resistance to a pathogen or resistance to a spider mite and.

That can either be like a decrease for us, like, this plant is more susceptible to root rot, or it can be kind of a benefit, like, look at how strong and vigorous this plant is, kind of like you were saying, the early Thai Cons. Look at how vigorous this plant is, where now it might be a little weaker, but maybe the coloring's better. The genetics change.

Jane Perrone (23:19) Yeah, I mean, it seemed like there was that period in 2018 where some plants were released and then the pandemic came along and demand just shot through the ceiling. But then it took a while, didn't it, for these plants to get to the stage we're at now where they're, I don't know, what are they selling for? 30 bucks or something for a plant with three, four, five leaves? What...

Did it take longer than you expected to get to that stage? And were there any particular reasons why that was? Or was it just merely like availability of plant material, which ultimately is, that's the factor that's going to influence speed of propagation, right?

Chris Ernst (24:00) Right. Yeah, it did actually, I actually famously have an incorrect video where I said that Thai consolation will really never become cheap. It took a long, it took a, yeah, yeah. And the internet has, it reminds me constantly. but I was wrong about that, because I did expect it to take, I guess it started taking a long time through the pandemic, 2021, 2022. And then we're like, when is this ever going to drop down? And then we're growing them out at.

Jane Perrone (24:09) You had to eat your words on that!

Chris Ernst (24:30) kind of the thousand scale mark, bringing in a thousand plants, growing them out. And then I'm losing 10, 20 % of these plants. Whereas I grow a different variegated plant from tissue culture and I'm only losing one or 2%. So I'm like, there's something going on here at a level that I can't see. Whereas this plant just isn't that strong to be grown at scale.

Jane Perrone (24:44) Mm.

Chris Ernst (24:55) So yeah, I think it just took a while for a strong supply to catch up to the demand. And then now you can see that wave of supply really going over top of that demand and pushing the price down finally. And which is a great thing because it's a beautiful plant. But I think we finally got a good stock of tissue culture and they're strong. And people in Asia have figured out how to replicate it safely.

and keep it a nice strong plant.

Jane Perrone (25:28) I mean, if somebody's looking at one of these rarer variants now that they're desperate to get hold of, what would your advice be? Would you just say, look, just be patient because actually like in a year's time, you could save yourself $500 or pounds because it's coming. I mean, I suppose there's always going to be people who want to invest, but I mean, is it a good investment still to buy some rare variant and try to chop and prop it or are those days over?

Chris Ernst (25:45) Right.

I think a lot of those days have passed and I think that's a great thing. I would not suggest people to do that as an investment because I mean, I've even considered that that's a lot of the nature of our business is buying rare plants and propagate them, but you really need to see that mass amount of demand for the plant to make the reproduction process or to have a plant be sent into tissue culture labs.

like the Thai Con, you had that perfect storm of demand being so massive in 2020. And the Tissue Culture Lab saw that, brought it in -house and just multiplied the heck out of it. And I think that's what ended up leading to a lot of the genetic issues we had in 2020, 2021, like the V2, V3 Thai Con. So yeah, if you see something you really love now, try and get a cutting, but...

the rule of thumb is it's gonna probably drop in price.

Jane Perrone (26:57) I never, I never sell plants for money personally, but I'm just thinking whether I should, if I ever do like, you know, I dunno, auction offer cutting of mine, should I be like saying, this is a 2018 Taycon, this is like the meat, this is the one you want, this is the strong fellow.

Chris Ernst (27:07) Hehehehe.

I mean, honestly, I think it's, now you can get in a lot of trouble in the internet for this. There's a few videos online, people can search about this sort of debate of V1, V2 and so on. But yeah, I mean, it is a different genetic makeup. And I think something I'm starting to dabble with, and I would like to bring into the ornamental industry is some form of genetic testing to where,

You know, I could test your plant with a leaf sample. I could test a plant coming out of tissue culture today and have them both, yes, be monsterotide constellation, but it could prove the genetics are actually different between the two plants. They're the same species. So yeah, it's a different plant. And if you take a stem cutting of that plant, it should be an exact copy of the mother plant. And I think I just want to clear that up just for anyone listening.

in most processes of tissue culture, as long as you don't over multiply a plant, it will be an exact replica of the mother plant. But if you go too far down the line, think of it as like a photocopy doing the original and then going 20 times down the line and then starting making copies of copies of copies, it becomes like a duller image over time and that genetic mutation is more likely to occur.

Jane Perrone (28:35) you yeah that makes sense I mean as I say my plant I think is I'm really happy with it and I you know I tend to I've given cuttings away and I've you know made some money for charity from them but I just it's a plant that I really like and I'm not a big arid grower as anyone who listens to my show will know I don't have many arrows at all and this is but this is one that I just think is a really good plant the only downside that I find and

I've got it in a light situation where this doesn't happen so much anymore is just the browning. If you have a leaf that has a very large amount of cream, you do sometimes get some browning, but you know, like life's not perfect, right? But I don't know if you've had any experience of ways of mitigating that, but I'm not overly bothered about it, but maybe you've got a tip.

Chris Ernst (29:25) Yeah, I think the big one going around online that has yet to be proven fully But I try it anyways is silica. So potassium silicate is a great way to Add like a I think of it as like a lubrication Through your plant and it just helps all processes of the plant kind of pull water through the stem get to all the leaves and Maybe hydrate those bits and also I've found that a perfect

Jane Perrone (29:35) Mm -hmm.

Chris Ernst (29:54) humidity for monstera right around 60 % relative humidity is really nice to not overly blacken which a high 80 % will do or a 40 % will kind of lead to a crispier browning but I have the same thing on my Thai Con it browns off whenever it gets that beautiful half moon or cream colored it will just brown off and I would be lying if I said it didn't make me a little sad but it's

It's part of not having chlorophyll in a leaf. You're going to lose the leaf. It's not doing anything for the plant.

Jane Perrone (30:21) Hehehe.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. It's one of those things. The humidity I probably can't do much about, but the silica, I did have somebody who was studying silica in plants and was noting that there are increasing numbers of products out there for silica. So yeah, I shall have to give that a try. I mean, mine is in a terracotta, a big terracotta pot and I don't really intend to repot it just because...

I can't really go any larger. So really for me, offering good feeding support is the way forward. So until it smashes its way out of this terracotta pot, that's where it's staying. Cause I nearly gave me a hernia trying to put it up last time. So I'm just like, no, I'd rather just keep taking growth off it and maybe a bit of root pruning and see where it takes me. But this is why they're such, this is why it's such a good species, isn't it? Because...

Chris Ernst (31:08) You

Jane Perrone (31:23) This plant is really adaptable and can cope with all kinds of conditions. It's just, it's a really tough plant. It doesn't, its needs are not great. I've seen them growing in all kinds of settings that are, let's, should we say suboptimal and they still go, which is great.

Chris Ernst (31:39) Yeah. Yeah. And I think the terracotta pot is a great hack. That's kind of been forgotten about by current generations, but those plants kind of allow moisture out through the bottom and sides of the pot really nicely. And a Monstera hates having the wet feet. So as long as you have a good draining mix and that terracotta pot will kind of allow air through the bottom, feed it a lot and give it a whole bunch of light. It will take just as much light or.

fertilizer almost that you can throw at it. So yeah, as long as very hungry plants, I always remember the, the Monstera. It's a, it's a massive plant and it can really take just about, you know, any feeding levels, any light levels. But it's a fun plant to grow. And I'm just happy that they're so prevalent and strong these days. It's really cool to see.

Jane Perrone (32:12) Yeah, yeah, they're hungry plants.

Yeah, the aerial routes though, I just wanted to mention those because there's so many hacks out there for those aerial routes, like putting them in a glass of water and all this. And I'm just like, I mean, A, I haven't got time for that, but also it's not going to do any harm, but I don't believe it's the answer for amazing growth. What do you think about those, those aerial route tips?

Chris Ernst (32:49) Right.

I think there's a lot of misconceptions about aerial roots, one being that they're not roots. And I think what people don't understand about roots is that a root adapts to whatever situation it's in, be it in the air or in water or when it finds a chunk of soil. I think the most underrated way to propagate a plant is using the aerial roots. So what we'll do many times in the greenhouse, if we have a very high value plant, we'll kind of lean it over so

the aerial root leans into the next pot of say it's LECA or aroid mix and the plant can find the moisture. So it will just tap right in and then root into the pot. And once I check those roots and realize that it's a developed root, I can then sever off that plant with a higher degree of confidence that it's going to survive because it already has an established root system. And those are just as good roots as the roots that.

come out of the bottom because all these plants are, they're all cuttings. These are just, it's just a chopped off piece of plant with an aerial root that propagated into the aerodynamics.

Jane Perrone (34:06) Yeah, exactly. And air layering as well is really good for the same reasons. It just works really, really well. And you get a new plant that's ready to go. And, you know, I think that's underrated both of those techniques for making new plants. But yeah, I think it's just getting people to not be scared of chopping them in the first place you know, just showing them that little bump on the side

That is the, side shoot. I can't think of a proper name for it. You know what I mean? The side shoot bump that you get that's going to turn into the side shoot.

Chris Ernst (34:35) Right. Yeah, I tend to call it a pimple and the internet hates that. The auxiliary bud, right?

Jane Perrone (34:43) Mm hmm. Yeah, the auxiliary bud I was I was I was getting my brain was getting mixed up with with adaxial and auxiliary but that's exactly the word I was looking for auxiliary bud Yeah, and which is activated as you've said earlier by cutting that the top growth where the where the the growth point where all the hormone is concentrated cutting that then simulates that side shoot.

Chris Ernst (34:54) jeez, yeah.

Jane Perrone (35:11) into activity and that's where that new growth is coming from, isn't it? It's amazing how quickly that happens. I mean, these are just, I think they're just amazing plants that we just, they've earned their place in our homes by their incredible way they've evolved to be so clever at dealing with different scenarios. I mean, I guess that's the other thing to say is that, you know, obviously, I mean, I suppose you might fall and trip onto your plant, but in nature, these plants are subject to hurricanes and...

you know, animals, you know, branches falling on them. And that's why they've evolved like this, right? To be able to have multiple roots going on so that if one part of the plant is taken down, it's not the end of its life.

Chris Ernst (35:40) Yes.

Yes.

Absolutely. I think this is the classic new plant parent freaks out when a pest is on the plant. Sometimes my wife used to find mealy bugs on our plants and she would end the day and end up hunting the whole house. And I'm like, have you ever looked at a plant in the natural world or in the forest? Look at how many bugs are all over every plant eating it actively. So they're always working on defense mechanisms or new ways to keep themselves alive.

And I think that's one undiscovered part about botany is just the, all the defense mechanisms that we don't really understand and that we might be underestimating a plant's will to survive. And that all it's trying to do, just like all of us is just persist.

Jane Perrone (36:41) Mm.

And I find with certainly with my Thai constellation, it's had thrips. Wasn't that bothered? It's had scale. Wasn't that bothered? You know, obviously I've done a lot to, you know, keep the plant from getting infected, going downhill with it. But like I've had scale take down a Raffodophora tetrasperma like quite comprehensively. And underneath that plant was the Thai constellation. Thai constellation had a few scale on it.

Chris Ernst (36:50) Yep. Yep.

Jane Perrone (37:13) but it's really not that bothered and it still has a few scale on it, but I use the old, the Daryl Cheng technique of using sticky tape just to remove the scale and it's really not bothered. It's not affected in the same way as other plants. So I guess, yeah, it's got a strong constitution, the Thai constellation and it can cope, which is amazing. It's really great. I mean, I wouldn't fancy getting, well, I suppose they're merely, the good thing about it also is just,

Chris Ernst (37:18) Yeah.

Jane Perrone (37:43) in terms of dealing with pests it's a chunky plant so it's not like you you can take it outside like scrub it with a toothbrush you know you can get in there and deal with pests in a way that maybe a slightly more fragile plant you can't do so that's another bonus.

Chris Ernst (38:00) yeah, it's a, I think that's what makes a plant kind of go to scale for the average house plant market. It has to be resilient. That's kind of like the, your example of a Rhaphidophora succumbing to something like scale. It's just a slightly thinner leaf. Whereas the monster just has that thick waxy, you know, protected coating. And as you mentioned, you can just take it outside, get the hose on it. And I take it into the shower and.

Just spray it with a hose as hard as you can. As you mentioned, you know, storms hit these plants, high winds, rains, you know, they're strong. And actually there's a lot of research and that's actually how you make a plant stronger is blowing air on it and bending the stem. And a lot of kind of fruit growers use techniques to stress plants out to make them produce more fruits and bigger fruits. So it's pretty interesting.

Jane Perrone (38:56) Yeah, absolutely. Just a footnote on that Rhaphidophora which again, this is an aren't plants cool moment. So I put, I just got to the point, it wasn't dead, but I got to the point where the scale on it was just too much. And as you said, unlike the Monstera, I couldn't use the packing tape on it because it was just, the leaves were too fragile. So it went on my compost heap, got covered over with loads of other plants, digging out that compost heap this spring.

lo and behold, I find a stem of Rhaphidophora with root attached. No scale visible, but it's still alive. So I've potted that up. It's, I think it's putting, it hasn't sprouted yet, but it's putting on roots underground, I think. And so I was amazed that survived the British winter, mild though it was this winter and it's still going. So even that plant is having a comeback for me, which is amazing.

Chris Ernst (39:34) There you go.

You

I love that.

Jane Perrone (39:53) Now getting on to it's great. It's great. I mean what's next for this plant for the for the moncera? Are we looking at a new generation of these super rare? Variants that people are coming up with are there any we should be looking out for?

Chris Ernst (40:10) Yeah, I think the next one, as we touched on in the start of the episode, was the Monstera Mint or the Kunzo's White Monster, Monstera, because it's already in the tissue culture process and it's been there for some time. I'm really interested in what happens in the aeroid world in the next two to three years, because I feel like we've gone over the peak of chaos in 2020.

Jane Perrone (40:20) Mm -hmm.

Chris Ernst (40:38) in 2021. And again, that demand kind of needs to fuel the supply that Thailand is willing to put out. So it's going to be interesting to see what comes out. But there's some really cool yellow variants of variegation also. So the Monstera aurea or the yellow Maryland is a variant that I believe also came out of Kunzo's Japanese garden and

That should be, that's in tissue culture also. I've seen them being circulated, but they're still, I believe in like the one to $300 range, which is out of most people's budget for a bagged plant that might die. But once we get those prices coming down, yeah, I could see white monster, the Maryland, the Aurea, Albo's also in tissue culture, but it's more unstable. But yeah, there should, creme brulee is,

coming out, but that's mostly just high constellation, just high variegation.

Jane Perrone (41:41) Mm -hmm Fantastic. Sorry. I'm just likely be distracted because I've got starlings out in the garden and they just keep smashing into the window very I think there's some young ones that are that are a bit not inexperienced because just keep carrying this thump against the glass There you go. It's nature going on all around us. Chris it's been a delight to chat to you about this incredible plant and

Chris Ernst (41:49) Hehehehe

I'm going to go to bed.

Jane Perrone (42:06) Any tips for anyone looking to buy one of these plants now, Thai Constellation or Albo? What should we be looking for? Anything particular just to end on a note of practical advice for anyone who's still wanting to dip their toe in this market?

Chris Ernst (42:23) Yeah, just number one with Monstera, check the roots. It's the number one way, if you can, right? If you're at the grocery store, it can be maybe kind of awkward to unpot a plant in the middle of a grocery store. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I say do it also. But if you're buying on, you know, Facebook marketplace or from another seller, just check the roots out. They do get root rot easier. There can be root bugs.

Jane Perrone (42:35) I always do it. I'm that person.

Chris Ernst (42:51) And then just buy a plant that you really like and not worry about what's popular on Instagram or on social media, but just find a variegation pattern that they are really like thumb prints, especially the elbow. It can vary greatly and that pattern will persist. So just find something you really love. I think in houseplants, now that we're in 2024, many years after the pandemic, people should chase things that they love and less of what's the hottest thing. And...

I think we're back to like the purest in the hobby, which is really cool.

Jane Perrone (43:25) I couldn't agree more. Well, Chris, thanks so much for joining me today. Just remind everyone where we can find you online.

Chris Ernst (43:28) Yeah.

Yeah, find me online on youtube .com. And also we have a website where we sell to the US pretty in green .com.

Jane Perrone (43:43) Thanks so much, Chris.

Chris Ernst (43:44) Thank you, Jane.

Host Jane Perrone talks all things Monstera ‘Thai Constellation’ with Chris Ernst of Pretty in Green: where this variegated wonder came from, how to grow it and why we love it.

This week’s guest

Chris Ernst is one of the owners of US plant seller Pretty in Green. You'll find their video on 'Thai Constellation' here.

Prefer to see a video version of this podcast? Visit my YouTube channel.

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